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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: lsmith1980 on Sunday 14 July 24 19:22 BST (UK)
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Trying to trace any information on a Charles Pearce and his son John Pearce (b. abt. 1906), who married Elizabeth Ackleton (b.1911) in 1928. They lived on the Belvedere Marshes until at least 1940, and then they moved to the Willows in Hertfordshire.
Really hit a brick wall with this so grateful for any help or anything really.
I know quite a bit about the Ackleton side but always looking for new information.
But due to a change of name I know nothing about John Pearce or his family before 1940.
I know sometime between September 1939 and mid 1941 John Pearce, left Kent and started using the name Robert Pearce and named his son that name too.
He died in 1965 and was still using the name 'Robert'. So much so that it was not until I started tracing my tree I discovered the name change, even his children did not know this.
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Trying to trace any information on a Charles Pearce and his son John Pearce (b. abt. 1906), who married Elizabeth Ackleton (b.1911) in 1928.
They lived on the Belvedere Marshes until at least 1940, and then they moved to the Willows in Hertfordshire.
Really hit a brick wall with this so grateful for any help or anything really.
Welcome to Rootschat
Do you have Charles and John on any census? If so, can you provide further details please.
Do you know the name of John’s mother.
Added
Do you have the 1928 marriage certificate?
What was occupation of John & Charles?
What was John’s address?
Who witnessed the marriage?
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No I don't have them on any Census and only know that John's father's name is Charles as it is listed on his marriage certificate.
I have no information on his mother at all and no certain birthdate either.
Family legend is apparently that he lived on the Belvedere Marshes in Kent, He got into a row with a policeman, threw him from the top deck of a bus/tram? and fled to Hertfordshire changing his name from Robert Smith to Robert Pearce.
I can find nothing to link him to the name Smith or Robert, His marriage certificate and his first 2 children's birth certificate have John Pearce listed as father and his 3rd child has Robert crossed out the John Pearce in the father's space.
I do have him on the 1939 Register as John Pearce on Belvedere Marshes with his wife and 2 eldest children.
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Did you get his fathers name solely from the 1928 marriage cert or do you have any other documentation that links them as father & son?
Do you have John & Elizabeth on the 1939 register - what was John's full birthdate?
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Was Charles shown as a gardener on the 1928 marriage cert?
If so - there is a 1911 entry for a John Pearce ages 6 b Bucks - parents Charles & Frances. Age fits with 1939 birthdate
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I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry. Use daughter Minnie b 1935 to search. Look at the entry for John - his name & in particular the entry for his birthdate
We are not allowed to post those details on RC
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Birth reg
December qtr 1899
Josiah Pearce Barnet 3a 295
GRO online has no mothers maiden name so he was illegitimate
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I know sometime between September 1939 and mid 1941 John Pearce, left Kent and started using the name Robert Pearce and named his son that name too.
He died in 1965 and was still using the name 'Robert'.
Where did he die?
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Was Charles shown as a gardener on the 1928 marriage cert?
If so - there is a 1911 entry for a John Pearce ages 6 b Bucks - parents Charles & Frances. Age fits with 1939 birthdate
1911
Charles Pearce 37 Head West Wycombe
Frances Pearce 32 Wife Liverpool
Charles Pearce 10 Son
Thomas Pearce 8 Son
John Pearce 6 Son
Ellen Pearce 0 Daughter
All others born High Wycombe
Could this be their birth entries
PEARCE, CHARLES HENRY mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 834
PEARCE, THOMAS mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 880
PEARCE, JOHN mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 390
PEARCE, ELLEN LOUISA mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 977
There is this marriage
Charles Edward Pearce Age 25 occ french polisher
Marriage 7 Aug 1899 Liverpool, Holy Trinity, Lancashire
Father Henry Pearce
Spouse Frances Mary Hopper
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Confusing 1939 entry throws up a lot of questions about his identity
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Birth reg
December qtr 1899
Josiah Pearce Barnet 3a 295
GRO online has no mothers maiden name so he was illegitimate
No I have investigated this and ruled it out, even thoughthe name Josiah has been added at a later date on the 1939 register.
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Trying to trace any information on a Charles Pearce and his son John Pearce (b. abt. 1906), who married Elizabeth Ackleton (b.1911) in 1928.
They lived on the Belvedere Marshes until at least 1940, and then they moved to the Willows in Hertfordshire.
Really hit a brick wall with this so grateful for any help or anything really.
Welcome to Rootschat
Do you have Charles and John on any census? If so, can you provide further details please.
Do you know the name of John’s mother.
Added
Do you have the 1928 marriage certificate?
What was occupation of John & Charles?
What was John’s address?
Who witnessed the marriage?
I do have the 1928 Certificate but I know all the information on it is not true.
Charles Pearce is listed as a pedlar and as deceased.
Witnessed by a L.Pearce and a M. Deller
Address for both the bride and groom is listed as 42 Campbell Road, Islington. I believe this is a lie.
John Pearce is listed age 20, which is different from both of the birthdates given on the 1939 register, so that leaves me with 3 possible birth years for him.
Elizabeth Ackleton has a different birthdate than is listed as age 21, when I know she was born in 1911. I believe this is also a lie to put her above the age of needing her father's (Alfred Ackleton 1882-1958) Permission as they were estranged at this point.
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Did you get his fathers name solely from the 1928 marriage cert or do you have any other documentation that links them as father & son?
Do you have John & Elizabeth on the 1939 register - what was John's full birthdate?
I did get the father's name solely from the marriage cert and there are 2 birthdates 8 years apart listed on the 1939 register.
It is very confusing.
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I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry. Use daughter Minnie b 1935 to search. Look at the entry for John - his name & in particular the entry for his birthdate
We are not allowed to post those details on RC
Yeah, I have that entry but there are 2 birthdates listed.
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I know sometime between September 1939 and mid 1941 John Pearce, left Kent and started using the name Robert Pearce and named his son that name too.
He died in 1965 and was still using the name 'Robert'.
Where did he die?
Not sure if it would be Hertfordshire or Enfield as I don't know if he died in hospital. I know he died of stomach cancer so it is a possibility.
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Was Charles shown as a gardener on the 1928 marriage cert?
If so - there is a 1911 entry for a John Pearce ages 6 b Bucks - parents Charles & Frances. Age fits with 1939 birthdate
1911
Charles Pearce 37 Head West Wycombe
Frances Pearce 32 Wife Liverpool
Charles Pearce 10 Son
Thomas Pearce 8 Son
John Pearce 6 Son
Ellen Pearce 0 Daughter
All others born High Wycombe
Could this be their birth entries
PEARCE, CHARLES HENRY mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1900 S Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 834
PEARCE, THOMAS mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1903 M Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 880
PEARCE, JOHN mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1904 D Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 390
PEARCE, ELLEN LOUISA mmn HOPPER
GRO Reference: 1910 J Quarter in WYCOMBE Volume 03A Page 977
There is this marriage
Charles Edward Pearce Age 25 occ french polisher
Marriage 7 Aug 1899 Liverpool, Holy Trinity, Lancashire
Father Henry Pearce
Spouse Frances Mary Hopper
I don't think this is very likely.
As far as I know through family legend he lived all his life in Kent until he fled to Hertfordshire between September 1939 and 1941.
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Trying to trace any information on a Charles Pearce and his son John Pearce (b. abt. 1906), who married Elizabeth Ackleton (b.1911) in 1928.
I know quite a bit about the Ackleton side but always looking for new information.
Don't know whether this maybe 'new' information or not........
Elizabeth Ackleton Bapt 25 August 1912 at Luton, Christ Church in Rochester Kent
Father Alfred, occ Licensed Hawker mother Minnie abode Ash Tree Lane
Their marriage
Alfred 22, occ hawker, father William ACKLETON
Minnie PAGE 28, widow father Charles JOHNSON, occ hawker
married on 23 Nov 1903 at Parish Church East Malling, Kent
Ismith1980 - when you come back online if you could answer any of the questions asked we might be able to offer further assistance in trying to locate John /Robert Pearce before 1928
Have you looked for John on 1921 census?
Birth reg
December qtr 1899
Josiah Pearce Barnet 3a 295
GRO online has no mothers maiden name so he was illegitimate
I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry. Use daughter Minnie b 1935 to search. Look at the entry for John - his name & in particular the entry for his birthdate
We are not allowed to post those details on RC
That's very interesting Carole
Don't know if this relates to the same Josiah above or just a coincidence posting due to year born and dob at death.
1922 marriage in Islington but a father is named and Josiah & Lily are together on 1939 register living in Islington :-\
Josiah Pearce 23 occ stoker, 32 Campbell Road
father Charles Pearce deceased
married on 25 Aug 1922 at St Anne, Poole's Park, Islington
Spouse Lily Moss
Josiah made his mark, Lily signed
Probable death entry
Josiah Pearce age 74 Birth 23 Sep 1899
Registration Dec 1973 Islington Volume 5c Page 1804
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Trying to trace any information on a Charles Pearce and his son John Pearce (b. abt. 1906), who married Elizabeth Ackleton (b.1911) in 1928.
I know quite a bit about the Ackleton side but always looking for new information.
Don't know whether this maybe 'new' information or not........
Elizabeth Ackleton Bapt 25 August 1912 at Luton, Christ Church in Rochester Kent
Father Alfred, occ Licensed Hawker mother Minnie abode Ash Tree Lane
Their marriage
Alfred 22, occ hawker, father William ACKLETON
Minnie PAGE 28, widow father Charles JOHNSON, occ hawker
married on 23 Nov 1903 at Parish Church East Malling, Kent
Ismith1980 - when you come back online if you could answer any of the questions asked we might be able to offer further assistance in trying to locate John /Robert Pearce before 1928
Have you looked for John on 1921 census?
Birth reg
December qtr 1899
Josiah Pearce Barnet 3a 295
GRO online has no mothers maiden name so he was illegitimate
I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry. Use daughter Minnie b 1935 to search. Look at the entry for John - his name & in particular the entry for his birthdate
We are not allowed to post those details on RC
That's very interesting Carole
Don't know if this relates to the same Josiah above or just a coincidence posting due to year born and dob at death.
1922 marriage in Islington but a father is named and Josiah & Lily are together on 1939 register living in Islington :-\
Josiah Pearce 23 occ stoker, 32 Campbell Road
father Charles Pearce deceased
married on 25 Aug 1922 at St Anne, Poole's Park, Islington
Spouse Lily Moss
Josiah made his mark, Lily signed
Probable death entry
Josiah Pearce age 74 Birth 23 Sep 1899
Registration Dec 1973 Islington Volume 5c Page 1804
I had answered last night but I was waiting for a moderator to approve them.
I have looked on the 1921 Census but cannot seem to find him. However I have only been doing this for a couple of months so it is possible I have missed something?
I had previously investigated the 'Josiah' option and discounted it as a mistake on the register because of the 1939 register info of him living with someone else.
I did have the information regarding Elizabeth Ackleton, but thanks anyway.
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I do have the 1928 Certificate but I know all the information on it is not true.
Charles Pearce is listed as a pedlar and as deceased.
Witnessed by a L.Pearce and a M. Deller
Address for both the bride and groom is listed as 42 Campbell Road, Islington. I believe this is a lie.
Thank you for providing the marriage details
edit to add
Did John & Elizabeth sign their names?
I wonder what the christian name of witness L Pearce is and how they are related to John :-\
That's interesting as Josiah & Lily Pearceaddress 32 Campbell Road, Islington on their 1922 marriage certificate :-\ and his father Charles is also noted as deceased but no occupation given ???
Looked at the London Electoral Register for the above address 42 Campbell Road Year 1938 there's Joseph & Lily Pearce and living at number 32 Campbell Street persons with surnames Clark & Moss (not checked to see if the persons named Moss are related to Lily)
surnames Moss & Clark
Electoral Date 1939
Street Address 32 Whadcoat Street
Ward or Division/Constituency Islington North and South
County or Borough Islington
and at number 42 Whadcoat Street is Joseph & Lily Pearce
I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry. Use daughter Minnie b 1935 to search. Look at the entry for John - his name & in particular the entry for his birthdate
We are not allowed to post those details on RC
Yeah, I have that entry but there are 2 birthdates listed.
Don’t now if there might be a connection or just a coincidence to this Pearce family in 1921 Belvedere, Erith, Kent - not found them in 1911
Charles Pearce 1885 -
Ann Pearce 1885 -
Rally Pearce 1906 Belvedere, Kent
Henry Pearce 1913 Belvedere, Kent
George Pearce 1914 Belvedere, Kent
Can't post further details other than what's freely available - you have to pay to view the original census for further details - I think/hope I'm ok in saying that the street address is similar to John Pearce's in 1939
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Marriage: Josiah Pearce . Lily Moss
Oct-Dec 1922 . Islington . Volume 1b . Page 482
I recognise Moss as a traveller name.
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Marriage: Josiah Pearce . Lily Moss
Oct-Dec 1922 . Islington . Volume 1b . Page 482
I recognise Moss as a traveller name.
Reply 16 gives details of the 1922 marriage :)
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Marriage: Josiah Pearce . Lily Moss
Oct-Dec 1922 . Islington . Volume 1b . Page 482
I recognise Moss as a traveller name.
Reply 16 gives details of the 1922 marriage :)
This info is not relevant to my search as I have evidence they are NOT a match for the John Pearce I am looking for, but thanks anyway.
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hallo there in reading your info on this message it aperes that my grate grandmother and your grandfather are brother and sisster my grannys name is priscilla acklton i have al so done a lot of ancestry on the family and i do have many photos of them all but i have never seen one of your grandad alfe do you have one i could see pleces or any of the famliy that you may have kind regards waynus
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hallo there in reading your info on this message it aperes that my grate grandmother and your grandfather are brother and sisster my grannys name is priscilla acklton i have al so done a lot of ancestry on the family and i do have many photos of them all but i have never seen one of your grandad alfe do you have one i could see pleces or any of the famliy that you may have kind regards waynus
Hi,
Thanks for the response. Is your Great Grandmother, Priscilla Ackleton 1876-1939? Parents Betsy Eastwood & Wiliiam Ackleton.
I am currently doing a tree on Ancestry, are you on there?
My Great Grandmother was the daughter of Alfred Ackleton and Minnie Johnson.
She didn't have anything good to say about her father and I have never seen a picture of him or any from the Ackleton side, except her brother's family.
I know her father ran off with his brothers widow in about 1925, GGM was 14 then & I don't think she ever saw him or the Ackleton side of her family after that.
At least that it what I remember her saying.
Would LOVE to see any pics you have.
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hallo ismith i have left you a messege on privet messenger so look in your messeges and you will see itlet me know if you dident get it