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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: AusFamily on Sunday 14 July 24 07:21 BST (UK)

Title: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: AusFamily on Sunday 14 July 24 07:21 BST (UK)
The attached graphic is of the marriage banns of Ralph Adams dated 18 Aug. 1740, in Hemel Hempstead, Hertfordshire.

His wife's name is hard to decipher
ancestry.com and family search has it as Elizabeth Hindell
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N28D-8LC
findmypast.co.uk has it as Elizabeth Kendell
Hertfordshire Archives has it as Elizabeth Windell

I am trying to trace where she may have been born, therefore a correct surname would be a help.

thank you
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: Margow on Sunday 14 July 24 09:08 BST (UK)
Boyd's Marriage Indexes has the name as ARNDELL
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: josey on Sunday 14 July 24 09:31 BST (UK)
And the FindmyPast transcription has ELiz AMDELL.
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: Watson on Sunday 14 July 24 18:30 BST (UK)
If forced to choose between the above two, I would prefer Arndell (which Reaney associates with Arundale in his dictionary of surnames). However, I am not certain that the first letter is "A".
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: AusFamily on Tuesday 16 July 24 04:29 BST (UK)
Thanks everyone
hard to know what to think. Kendall could also be a possibility.
I will have to see if there are baptism records for all the various surname variations in that area for that period
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: josey on Tuesday 16 July 24 08:04 BST (UK)
Yes, baptisms a good idea. Also Boyd's is the most contemporary record, so I suggest looking at the original of Boyd.

Here is the link to FamilySearch, as OP stated there is transcribed as Hindell
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N28D-8LZ
though I'm not sure which original source they have used.
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 16 July 24 18:58 BST (UK)
I would strongly favor a capital "A" as the initial letter.
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: josey on Tuesday 16 July 24 19:13 BST (UK)
I think it would be helpful to see other entries on the page for 'K' and 'H'.

Wexflyer - I don't see any similarity with the 'A' of Adams in Ralph's name.

Can the OP please say where the banns page can be accessed.
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 16 July 24 19:17 BST (UK)


Wexflyer - I don't see any similarity with the 'A' of Adams in Ralph's name.


To me the core of the letter A is identical in both. The large curl to the left in Adams may be due to the following letter "d"
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: josey on Tuesday 16 July 24 19:23 BST (UK)
The large curl to the left in Adams may be due to the succeeding letter "d"
Of course, I didn't spot that. However the central cross bar of the first letter of the surname has [in my eyes] a small downward curl which the cross bar of the 'A' of Adams does not - the latter has a strong vertical line at the right hand side.
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: Bookbox on Tuesday 16 July 24 19:32 BST (UK)
It’s not a banns record. It’s the record of a marriage by (‘per’) banns. I believe it’s taken from the bishop’s transcript here …

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN2-9FQY?i=215&cat=319936
(left-hand column, 5 lines up)

There are many examples of A and H on this page. On a cursory look I haven't spotted a K. Others may wish to look further.

But frankly I would advise the OP to order a copy of the entry in the parish register from Herts Archives, as this may be clearer than the bishop’s transcript. (The parish register is probably the source of Boyd's index entry.)
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: AusFamily on Wednesday 17 July 24 02:54 BST (UK)

Can the OP please say where the banns page can be accessed.

The original is from findmypast here: https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBPRS%2FM%2F73075290%2F1
Then click on view original record. This is not the same page as the familysearch.org page mentioned above which is an interesting contrast
Title: Re: unsure of surname 1700s
Post by: AusFamily on Wednesday 17 July 24 04:07 BST (UK)
comparing the two different pages. The name above "Sarah Crawley" the end -y in Crawley definitely invades the space of Elizabeth's surname. I assume the following letter is a p for "per licence"
This would lend strong credence to the surname below being read as Arndell, with the A being obscured by the y and the p above.

Any comments?


Thank you to the person who found this on https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSN2-9FQY?cat=319936
My initial source was findmypast
I find the familysearch site hard to navigate at the best of times.