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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: RayRob on Saturday 13 July 24 21:19 BST (UK)

Title: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Saturday 13 July 24 21:19 BST (UK)
Having used the usual resources shown on RootsChat , I have been unable to find a birth record
for a Patrick Ford whose middle names have been shown to include 'Michael' or 'Walter , or a combination of 'Michael &  'Walter' .

His birth has been noted as 13th March 1915 , Broken Hill , New South Wales , Australia.
That information was recorded on his 1958 marriage certificate, at Wanganui , New Zealand
His parents are listed as :
Edward John Ford , painter
Adeline Avis Ford nee  Godfrey

On his NZ  marriage certificate his name is recorded as Patrick Walter Ford .

His death in New Zealand is officially indexed as :
1983/ 29610  Ford , Patrick  Michael , born 13 March 1915 .

My hope is that a knowledgeable  'Rootschatter'  will find  some information for me !

In Appreciation
RayRob
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Saturday 13 July 24 21:46 BST (UK)
I looked at this when you posted  yesterday (and failed ). It would be best if you ask the moderator to merge them.

Anyway…he’s a new made man isn’t he!
Have you figured out who the Patrick Walter at Ohaupo in 1957 is?  With a wife Isabel Jean

Have you found any WW2 records for him (Aust or NZ?)
I can’t find the said parents anywhere either.
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: wivenhoe on Saturday 13 July 24 23:28 BST (UK)


Is this a first marriage for Patrick?  What age is his wife at 1958?

What church did he marry in (denomination)?

What occupation do you have for Patrick?

What information is on his death certificate?
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Sunday 14 July 24 05:13 BST (UK)
Thanks for your interest , wivenhoe

According to His  1958 NZ  marriage  certificate , Patrick Walter Ford , aged 42 years ,  had been granted a divorce
( decree absolute )   11th March  1948.
His second marriage took place at the Registrar's office  in Wanganui , New Zealand .
His  occupation was 'Hospital Orderly'
His bride was Henrietta Maude  Goater , housemaid , aged 25 years . .
The bride and groom were living ( separately ) in Wanganui
There is plenty of available information about Henrietta "Hetty" Goater and her parents .

I have not seen Patrick's  Death Certificate .
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 14 July 24 05:36 BST (UK)
Patrick was a roadman in 1960, the same occupation as the man with Isabel Jean in 1957.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 14 July 24 05:48 BST (UK)


At marriage, 1958, Patrick Walter FORD is rather older than Henrietta. Human vanity being what it is, Patrick might be older still, having taken a few years off his age.

Is Patrick your direct ancestor?  Where did Patrick die and where is he buried?

Did you meet Patrick, ie. do you have your own memories of Patrick?

Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 05:52 BST (UK)
Did the divorce document have to be shown to the registrar in 1948?

I can’t see any with that name in Australia or NZ papers which I feel is unusual for the time.
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Sunday 14 July 24 06:11 BST (UK)

I have to wonder whether or not  this is  the man in question

Name   Patrick Michael Ford
Death Date   1983
Cemetery   Mangatainoka Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place   Pahiatua, Tararua District, Manawatū-Whanganui, New Zealand
Has Bio?   N
URL   
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/171620964/patrick-michael-ford


Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: wivenhoe on Sunday 14 July 24 06:21 BST (UK)


Can you please give attention to my questions -

At marriage, 1958, Patrick Walter FORD is rather older than Henrietta. Human vanity being what it is, Patrick might be older still, having taken a few years off his age.

Is Patrick your direct ancestor?  Where did Patrick die and where is he buried?

Did you meet Patrick, ie. do you have your own memories of Patrick?

This for P M W  FORD  died 1983 -

https://www.tararuadc.govt.nz/living-here/community-information/cemeteries/cemetery-record-details?plotid=17491

....1939-1945   USA forces
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 06:24 BST (UK)
What do we think that military number is?

35643?

If so,  nothing coming up here

https://aad.archives.gov/aad/series-description.jsp?s=3360&cat=WR26&bc=,sl

Added..in fact, their army serial numbers are 8 digits long  ???
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: Dundee on Sunday 14 July 24 12:59 BST (UK)
MP 35643

https://www.corpsofmilitarypolice.org/tools/armynumber

Debra  :)
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Sunday 14 July 24 19:25 BST (UK)


Can you please give attention to my questions -

At marriage, 1958, Patrick Walter FORD is rather older than Henrietta. Human vanity being what it is, Patrick might be older still, having taken a few years off his age.

Is Patrick your direct ancestor?  Where did Patrick die and where is he buried?

Did you meet Patrick, ie. do you have your own memories of Patrick?

This for P M W  FORD  died 1983 -

https://www.tararuadc.govt.nz/living-here/community-information/cemeteries/cemetery-record-details?plotid=17491

....1939-1945   USA forces

My apologies as I wrestle with trying to reply .

I am not related to Patrick , have not met him , and have  no memories of him .

I am unable to decide whether or not  his burial is the one associated with PMW Ford died 1983
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Sunday 14 July 24 20:20 BST (UK)
Patrick was a roadman in 1960, the same occupation as the man with Isabel Jean in 1957.

Debra  :)

Thanks  for the reference to 1957 NZ  Electoral Roll   Waikato  Waipa :
Ford, Isabel  Jean , Tomin Rd., Ohaupo , housewife
Ford , Patrick Walter , same address ,  labourer

I have been unable to make a connection with my  person of interest .
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Sunday 14 July 24 20:45 BST (UK)
Did the divorce document have to be shown to the registrar in 1948?

I can’t see any with that name in Australia or NZ papers which I feel is unusual for the time.

Debra , thank-you for persevering  with this puzzle .
I wish I could answer the question re  the divorce in 1948
I don't know whether the divorce mentioned had to have occurred in NZ , or whether it could
have occurred in Australia ...

The lack of any  newspapers  mention regarding Patrick ( or his parents ) , is  disappointing ....
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 20:51 BST (UK)
Tararua burial  Seems likely to him
No other matching death
Drilling down on NZ BDM gives a death date of 13 April 1983 which matches the Tararua record

I wonder if the RSA have a record?
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Sunday 14 July 24 23:35 BST (UK)
I have just been advised that Patrick would not have had to show documentation to prove his divorce

“ As you can imagine people were married all over the empire so documents were often thin on the ground”

“ So his second marriage was under the 55 Act. All you need to do is verify there is no lawful impediment to marriage.”

“ If you lie, it is up to 7 years in prison although the sentencing guidelines indicate only 2 years”

Have you got access to the BDM microfiche?  Local NZSG group?  To see if there is a marriage to Isobel Jean. If so that might be worth getting incase that is the same man.

Edited to add two more quotes
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 15 July 24 00:07 BST (UK)
Further to last post

“ If he applied for a marriage licence in 1958 he would have filed a form stating his conjugal status as divorced. The form in the marriage regulations 1956 required him to state the date of the decree absolute but no requirement for a copy of the order absolute.”

here is the form

http://nzlii.org/nz/legis/num_reg/mr1956194/
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 15 July 24 00:42 BST (UK)
you could contact the funeral directors to see what they have.

http://www.chesterburt.co.nz
Title: Re: NSW Birth Record - Patrick Michael Ford AKA Patrick Walter Ford
Post by: RayRob on Monday 15 July 24 03:42 BST (UK)
My thanks go to mckha489   for offering  avenues for me to explore