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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Bill 4423 on Thursday 11 July 24 16:08 BST (UK)
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I’m trying to piece together Harry Warner’s early life and any marriages before he married – Ida Temperley (Jones) in 1953, him and his wife Ida were part of my extended family I knew/met them when I was a little lad.
as far as I know Harry was born in Preston Lancashire. 10.2.1904. to 10.5.1999 (Middlesbrough).
I’m using Familysearch, I was researching his wife (mainly)Ida Jones Marriage(s) (rootschat.com)
came across this Harry Warner in household of George Jackson, "England and Wales Census, 1911" • FamilySearch Which is confusing me a lot (doesn’t take much),
his parents Edward and Annie, I have found (I think) in 1901 Edward Warner in household of Elizabeth Turner, "England and Wales Census, 1901" • FamilySearch
I can’t find any record of harry or any of their other children Edward Warner (1877–Deceased), Annie Rowland (1878–Deceased) • Landscape View • Family Tree • FamilySearch or them, on the 1911 census (more than likely me).
Would someone be kind enough to have a look for me please, and more interesting if harry married before Ida? as I am getting absolutely nowhere with it.
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I have no idea why, but my hyperlinks are not working on the above!
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The 1999 death, Stockton, Durham gives a birthdate 20th February 1904.
1911- Family Search is confusing as Annie Warner is a boarder with Harry and Maggie, 10 yrs.
Annie is transcribed wrongly.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X49H-8MQ
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GRO is free to use to check mother’s maiden name
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
There is a birth for Harry Warner with mother Rowland
Also a birth for Margaret Warner with mother Rowland
Edward Warner married Annie Rowland in 1899, Preston
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In 1901 3962/ 8/7
Edward Warner is a ‘Ship Riviter ‘ maybe he was working away from home in 1911
There is a 1914 birth in Preston for Roland Warner - mother Rowland
You can check 1921 census indexes for free on FindMyPast. These names are all listed and it looks as though they are together.
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The 1999 death, Stockton, Durham gives a birthdate 20th February 1904.
1911- Family Search is confusing as Annie Warner is a boarder with Harry and Maggie, 10 yrs.
Annie is transcribed wrongly.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X49H-8MQ
Thank you, so Maggie (Margaret) and Annie should be Warner? living with the Jacksons?
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Yes they are. FS transcription is incorrect.
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Edward appears to have married Florence Cherrington in Preston in Dec qtr 1934.
Births March qtr 1887
Florence CHERRINGTON Preston 8e 653
Deaths March qtr 1934
Annie Warner 56 Preston 8e 743
Deaths June qtr 1955
WARNER Edward 78 Preston 10f 295
Deaths March qtr 1973
WARNER FLORENCE 8DE1886 AMOUNDERNESS 10B 81
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I forgot that Bill asked about Harry’s marriage/s too.
1953 Durham
Harry Warner and Ida Temperley
The marriage certificate would show his status.
There are lots of Harry Warner marriages - see Free BMD.
Do you know when he moved to Durham?
1938 Preston
Harry Warner and Linda M Thomas
There is a death for Linda M Warner, 1987 Preston b 1901 and a matching person in 1939, so the 1938 marriage does not seem correct.
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and any marriages before he married – Ida Temperley (Jones) in 1953,
Have you viewed his marital status on the 1939 register?
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I agree re 1938 marriage. That was a second marriage - the first was 1917 when Harry b 1904 was only 13
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Many thanks for ALL the replies (appreciated), some interesting information on Harrys family, ordering the marriage certificate of him and Ida is a very good idea (heywood, thanks), I assume this should/would give Widowed/divorced etc?
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Yes it would but it would still leave the question of who he married before Ida. The 1939 entry I mentioned only confirms marital status but no wife with him.
Do you know if he had any children before he married Ida as their birth registrations would give their mothers maiden name?
It would be a good idea to get that 1953 marriage cert anyway as it would confirm his father was Edward. Whilst his birthdate on the 1999 death matches the March qtr 1904 birth etc - there are 2 other births in the next quarter. If his birth was registered after 31st March 1904 there is always the possibility he could be a different Harry Warner.
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Yes it would but it would still leave the question of who he married before Ida. The 1939 entry I mentioned only confirms marital status but no wife with him.
Do you know if he had any children before he married Ida as their birth registrations would give their mothers maiden name?
It would be a good idea to get that 1953 marriage cert anyway as it would confirm his father was Edward. Whilst his birthdate on the 1999 death matches the March qtr 1904 birth etc - there are 2 other births in the next quarter. If his birth was registered after 31st March 1904 there is always the possibility he could be a different Harry Warner.
As far as I understand, he had no children, him and Ida definitely did not. My guess is he was widowed, he was an absolute gent, I’d be surprised if he had divorced. I will order the certificate and post back, is a pdf of a marriage possible from the GRO? I think I have the correct GRO info.
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Unfortunately not - pdf versions are only available for births over 100yrs prior to application and deaths to 1957
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There are newspaper snippets, I have no access to them though which mention Edward Warner’s behaviour and maintenance arrears to his wife etc - 1909.
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I have received Harry and Ida’s marriage certificate, on it, it says Harry’s “condition” (marital status) is BATCHELOR. Was his 1939 information MARRIED?
Info
26TH December 1953 - Harry Warner – 49 years – Boiler erector – Address – Edward Warner (Deceased) – boilermaker.
Ida Temperley – 41 years – Widow – chemical process worker – Address – Walter Jones (Deceased)
Interesting that Harry never spoke of his family to anyone, ever. Before he died, he flatly refused to make a will (died intestate, not a poor man), This all seems to tally with the information I know of them and info on this thread (apparently his farther was not dead).
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The 1939 entry shows M against his marital status
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The 1939 entry shows M against his marital status
Thank You. I guess I will never know for sure if Harry was married previous to Ida, not really a big deal for me, many thanks for all the information on this thread.
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It’s not helped by the fact he was working in Fulham in 1939. Occupation in 1939 is a close match to 1953 marriage cert.
I’ve looked at marriages from 1922 -1939 & there are 23 entries without middle names but none in Lancashire -apart from the one in 1938 which has already been eliminated - or Durham.
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I was looking at this again and wondered anyone had any thoughts on the details below.
Harrys original entry on the 1939 register had 10 feb 1904 for his DOB, which is what I had, it is amended (written above) at some later date as 3rd of January 1914 This is struck through in red and you are directed to a further page where it has the 10.02.1904 DOB also has M (married) – his 1921 census age also suggests feb 1904.
On the amended first entry (above) it has FFB above the M – married entry, after a little research FFB is the area code for south Durham – Billingham, where harry and Ida lived!
Not sure if this could relate to anything, a first marriage? Or his marriage to Ida in 1953?
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His estate was Administration only - as you mentioned earlier - he refused to make a will.
I think you have to go with his birthdate on the 1939 register & his death cert - 10.2.1904 & in the absence of any other proof - you have to take his word that he was single when he married Ida.
IF - he did marry previously & divorce - he may have considered himself to be single but that is just assumption. It should show divorced but it's dependant on what he declared