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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: wildcats13 on Saturday 06 July 24 03:31 BST (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to find some ancestors for my grand daughter's husband and have struck a snag and hope someone can assist. What we do know is that William Tinsley Stover was the son of Francis Stover & Catherine Fisher, according to the Queensland BDM records, and he would have landed in Australia sometime in the 1850's, as he married Mary Ryan in 1861 in Queensland. It appears that he was born in about 1835 in Georgetown, Pettis County, Missouri, USA. I have tried finding more about Francis & Catherine through available services without success. I have tried searching passenger lists from America hoping to find where he boarded but struck a blank. I have all the available details for the family tree from William's marriage in Australia. Would be very pleased for any assistance.
Wildcats 13
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Does the information about his parents come from his death certificate or his marriage certificate?
Do both of his marriage certificates have the same information about his parents?
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A Joseph Stover married a Mary Fisher in 1807 Tennessee
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XD3K-G6D
One feels there might be a family connection.
Have a look at this tree
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LCQM-DMT
Mention of a will of Catherine Fisher of Missouri
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/collaborate/K26Y-GYV
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Stover households in Pettis County, Missouri, on the 1840 Census
John Stover household
male 20 to 30
female 20 to 30
Anthony Stover household
male 30 to 40
male under 5
female 20 to 30
female 40 to 50
3 females under 5
3 females 15 to 19
Mary Stover household
female 40 to 50
male 5 to 9
female 5 to 9
browse all, then by state, then by county
all the Stovers I found are on image 26
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1786457
all three of them are in the tree Neale1961 found.
I didn't find a Francis Stover on the 1840 census when searching it at familysearch. Maybe they had left for Australia by 1840.
Is there any record that William's parents went to Australia as well?
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Perhaps it’s a red herring, but I thought I would mention it anyway…
Catharine Stover
Marriage Date - 25 November 1839
Marriage Place - Pettis, Missouri
Spouse - Francis Jones
1850 District 68, Pettis, Missouri census
Francis Jones, born 1805, Missouri, Farmer
Catherine Jones, born 1809, Kentucky
William F. Jones, born 1830, Missouri
etc.
Anthony Stover and his household are shown on the same page
Shown directly above the Jones household are Anthony Fisher, age 56, born Virginia and Emily Fisher, age 22, born Kentucky
Added: Could this be a second marriage for Catharine Stover? Was William F.
her son, in 1850 using his stepfather’s surname;
her stepson, which means this is a red herring; or
not any connection to you William T. Stover.
If the above is your William, perhaps both his father and stepfather were named Francis, or there was a mistake with the names.
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Catharine Stover
Marriage Date - 25 November 1839
Marriage Place - Pettis, Missouri
Spouse - Francis Jones
Samuel Fisher married them.
The register is so hard to read, sadly.
Better copy here
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G98M-1S5J?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A6XHM-YBW6&action=view
Catherine Stover seems to have been the daughter of Mary Fisher and Joseph Stover.
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By the 1860 census William Stover is no longer in his mothers household.
In the 1850 census it could be William T. or William F. - Handwriting not clear. More like the F in other words though.
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By the 1860 census William Stover is no longer in his mothers household.
I wonder if any siblings went to Australia with William?
Calling it a night since it’s rather “late” here (middle of the night, actually)…
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It looks like the information about William Stover’s parents comes from his death certificate.
It is the kind of muddled information that is not uncommon on death certs. The informant knows some family information but gets it slightly mixed-up.
William may have travelled from America to Australia under the surname Jones.
Possible scenario ----
William was the son of Catherine Stover and a Mr. Tinsley. He may never have met his father. When his mother married Francis Jones, William took that surname and later reverted to the Stover name. Francis may have been the father that William knew, although not his biological father.
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Repeating some details and mentioning new ones…
Catharine Stover married Francis Jones in Pettis County, Missouri in November 1839
1850 Pettis County, Missouri census
Francis Jones, 45, farmer, Missouri
Catharine, 41, Kentucky
William ?, 20, farmer
Polly, 17
Francis, 14
Jacob, 11
Joseph, 8
Narcissa, 5
Thomas, 1
All children born in Missouri and had the surname Jones
1860 Freestone, Texas census (Fairfield Post Office)
Catharine Jones, 46, born Kentucky
Joseph, 17, Labourer, Missouri
Narcissa, 15, Missouri
Thomas, 12, Missouri
John, 7, Missouri
All children had the surname Jones
So, Catharine was possibly still with Francis, in Missouri, in 1853
According to the image, Catharine only had $54 in “value of personal estate” which, looking at several census pages, was quite low. :-\
According to several Anc*try family trees, Catharine’s/Catherine’s mother’s name was Mary Polly or Mary Jane.
Were William, Polly, Francis and Jacob Catharine’s children?
Or, were the children born to Catharine Stover and Francis Jones (prior to their marriage)?
Or, were the four only Francis’ children?
I think it’s least likely that Catharine wasn’t the mother, as she possibly named Polly after her mother.
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There was a William TINSLEY born abt 1809 in Kentucky.
He moved to Missouri. He married in Dec 1840 (Clark county) Missouri to Susannah Daggs.
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Hi sorry for the delay in replying as I only just found your response in the Junk Mail. Thanks to everyone for your input. After sifting through all the different options put forward, although we cannot prove it, the one most likely is Catherine Stover/Fisher daughter of Mary Fisher with Francis Stover/Jones. The parents on William's Death Certificate was definitely Catherine Fisher & Frances Stover. The timeline is also a indicator as they were married in 1839, and from everything that I could find, William was born about 1831 as indicated in the following Death Notice.
Morning Bulletin (Rockhampton, Qld. : 1878 - 1954) Fri 3 Jan 1908
STOVER.-In loving memory of my dear father, William Stover, who died at Mount Morgan, 3rd January 1907, in his 76th year. Gone, but not forgotten
To me, this means that unless Catherine married Unknown Tinsley and he died early or William was born out of wedlock under his mother's surname. It would have been easy for him to change his name back to Stover once he arrived in Australia. At the moment I have been unable to find him listed on any passenger lists from USA into Australia in the likely time frame.
I haven't found any other family members in the area although there was an article about an Anne Stover being in a Court Case about a domestic dispute, but was in the early 1840's and there was no death notice in the State's Death Notices.
I noticed in one of the reply's that one of the children in the 1850 & 1860 Census was named Narcissa, and William's daughter was named Mary Narcissus Stover. Is that a common name used in that period?.
Thanks for your assistance
Wildcats13
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I would say Narcissa is an uncommon name in any period, and is pretty good indication that we may have found the right family.
Once again, I stress the importance of NOT relying on information on the death certificate, which can be quite often flawed. His second marriage certificate is the one to acquire. Because of the later date, it will likely hold more info than the first.
There is no indication that Catherine ever married Tinsley. When she married Francis Jones, she married with the Hover surname.
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I have a few comments/questions, in no particular order…
You haven’t found William arriving c1850s. Are the Australian passenger records fairly complete? Is it unusual to not find someone? Different countries involved, but I’ve found very few passenger records for my ancestors who sailed to North America c1850s. I believe not finding a passenger list is the norm for Canada/North America during that time frame.
Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee have been mentioned. While my own ancestors settled in Ontario, Canada, they remained in the same general area for generations. However, hubby’s paternal side moved from state to state pre-1890, living in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia and Arkansas so I’m not surprised to find Stover, Fisher and Jones meandering as well. (The same is true for a few other searches I’ve done.)
Catharine was about 30 years old when she married Francis Jones. A bit old to be marrying for the first time but not uncommon I suppose. Perhaps if she did have four children prior to her first marriage, there is a logical reason (such as no local church, cost to get married, etc.).
William F/William T on the 1850 census. To me, the initial closely resembles other F’s on the page. The T’s on the page are a bit different, I think. If it was an F, perhaps his actual name was William Frederick Tinsley, William Francis Tinsley, etc.
If I’m remembering correctly, the four children born prior to the 1839 marriage were not included with their mother in the 1860 census. Possibly due to their ages, did they refuse to move to Texas with their mother, did some die, etc. I wonder if they could be found in 1860 additional clues might be uncovered. (Perhaps details have been found, I didn’t reread all of the comments and I don’t think I found anything.) ;)
Neale1961 raised a good point about William sailing under a different surname.
Regarding the 1860 census, perhaps Jones was the name that Francis or Catharine gave the enumerator. But, that doesn’t mean that they actually legally changed their names. It could have been a mistake by the enumerator or the parent intentionally misled the enumerator. Or, perhaps all of the children were known as Jones in the town.
Trying to find out more about William Tinsley, born c1809, Kentucky might shed additional leads. (I briefly looked around but didn’t find anything.)
I also have not run across the name Narcissa before, but most of my research has been in Canada and the UK.
I agree with Neale1961; even official documents can contain errors.
Something to keep in mind, depending upon how strict laws were then, there could be a slight chance that Catharine had been married to a Tinsley and chose not to share that name on the 1839 marriage certificate.
Apologies for the lengthy comments. :-[
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Perhaps it’s a red herring, but I thought I would mention it anyway…
Catharine Stover
Marriage Date - 25 November 1839
Marriage Place - Pettis, Missouri
Spouse - Francis Jones
1850 District 68, Pettis, Missouri census
Francis Jones, born 1805, Missouri, Farmer
Catherine Jones, born 1809, Kentucky
William F. Jones, born 1830, Missouri
etc.
Anthony Stover and his household are shown on the same page
Shown directly above the Jones household are Anthony Fisher, age 56, born Virginia and Emily Fisher, age 22, born Kentucky
Added: Could this be a second marriage for Catharine Stover? Was William F.
her son, in 1850 using his stepfather’s surname;
her stepson, which means this is a red herring; or
not any connection to you William T. Stover.
If the above is your William, perhaps both his father and stepfather were named Francis, or there was a mistake with the names.
In 1894 William Tinsley Stover put out an "ad" looking for Catherine Stover/Francis Jones; maybe there is a clue or two (no need to subscribe):
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-lexington-intelligencer-william-t-st/150895000/
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Excellent find, bbart! Thank you. I wonder if Narcissa was actually Mary?
…1850 Pettis County, Missouri census
Francis Jones, 45, farmer, Missouri
Catharine, 41, Kentucky
William ?, 20, farmer
Polly, 17
Francis, 14
Jacob, 11
Joseph, 8
Narcissa, 5
Thomas, 1
All children born in Missouri and had the surname Jones
1860 Freestone, Texas census (Fairfield Post Office)
Catharine Jones, 46, born Kentucky
Joseph, 17, Labourer, Missouri
Narcissa, 15, Missouri
Thomas, 12, Missouri
John, 7, Missouri
All children had the surname Jones…
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One more Lisa.... it's less helpful as it is vague "who" the father is.
This is 4 years earlier than the last clip:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-central-queensland-herald-francis-pe/150895444/
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Thank you, bbart! Wildcats13 should be very happy with your findings.
I’ll have a look around San Francisco, c1850s.
Added: if William was the one who went to San Francisco c1850, I can envision him sailing to Australia from California (rather than leaving Missouri or Texas to sail).
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Recorded as W S Stover on Anc*try…
1852 Placer County, California Census
W T(?) Stover(?), age 23, white, Miner(?), born Missouri, last residence Missouri
A possibility?
Perhaps he sailed to Australia in search of work (if that was your man).
Family calling…will be back later.
Added: there were a few other Missouri births on that image; possibly a group went to California?
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Thanks to everyone for your great effort. We have certainly got the correct William T Stover. He did live most of his live in Australia in the Rockhampton area. Those newspaper articles feels like William is talking from his grave still looking for answers to his questions.
His son Francis Peter Stover was born in Queensland, Australia in 1861, and I have been scratching my head where or when he died and/or married, as he doesn't appear anywhere around the country. Now we know at least that he went to the states. Would be interesting to know if he received any response. I haven't checked at this stage whether Catherine's parents were born in Kentucky as her brother John was, and brother Anthony was born in Tennessee and his wife Judith was also from Kentucky.
With regard to W.T.S being in the 1852 Placer County, California, I would say it is him, as when he arrived in Aust. he started mining for gold in the Mount Usher area just north of Rockhampton and his boys when they grew up also were involved. And they had some good findings over the years.
If nothing else comes for our efforts, I am very pleased with our results. More than I expected. If anything, a result of what happened to Francis Peter Stover in the US would be the icing on the cake. Thanks to everyone.
Wildcats13
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Hello and welcome, Wildcats!
Was one of William T Stover's sons named William Joseph?
There is an inquest in Australia on a Thomas Stover, and at the bottom of the long article it mentions his nephew, William Joseph Stover.
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-evening-news-thomas-stover-inquest/150904084/
I just want to make sure I am on the right track!
If so, the article mentions the name of Thomas's wife, which might help in the search if a marriage registration is available that names parents.
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William Tinsley had three sons and one daughter with Mary Ryan. They were 1. Francis Peter, 2 Mary Narcissus, 3 Joseph and 4 Thomas.
The inquest you mentioned, was following Thomas's death in 1925 regarding an accident involving a train at Rockhampton. The William Joseph you mentioned, was William Joseph Tidman George Stover
who was a grandson to William T., and his father was Joseph Stover.
The widow mentioned in the article was Thomas's wife, Edith Grace (Brett) Stover. And to confirm we are on the right track, Thomas & Edith had 8 children, 2 of which carried the names of Francis Tinsley Stover and Leslie Fisher Stover. Ancestor names from the past.
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Thanks for the info, Wildcats... it makes it easier to sort all these people out. Stover is a much more popular surname than I would have guessed!
Poor William... still hunting for his relatives in 1895 with the help of a Reverend in Missouri. Because of the long columns in the newspaper, I have split the clips into 2 parts.
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-journal-democrat-part-1-jones-stover/150916118/
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-journal-democrat-part-2-jones-stover/150916205/
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…With regard to W.T.S being in the 1852 Placer County, California, I would say it is him, as when he arrived in Aust. he started mining for gold in the Mount Usher area just north of Rockhampton and his boys when they grew up also were involved. And they had some good findings over the years...
You are welcome for the help (didn’t want to ignore your thank you from earlier).
Excellent finds, bbart.
It appears that William was trying to share his good fortune with his family. What a kind man as it appears that he not only wanted to share but he was so intent on finding them. I hope that he had success.
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It is clear from the posted newspaper items that William T Stover knew that he was illegitimate, knew his mother’s maiden name, and details about his step-father and step-siblings. Since the Tinsley name gets passed down in the family, one also has to assume there was knowledge of where it came from.
If you wish to pursue William’s biological father, the only chance you have of finding his name is on William’s marriage record, unless he wished to purposefully conceal it. I would speculate his father was William Tinsley, but you would want to have this confirmed directly by William T Hover himself, through his marriage record.
QLD marriage certificates after 1856 contain the couples names, ages, birth places, occupation and residence. Names and occupation of the groom’s and bride’s father and name of mother. In my experience, later ones contain more complete details.
Purchasing the historical source image is the most cost effective and the fastest.
• William Tinsley Stover
Event date: 10/07/1882
Event type: Marriage registration
Registration details: 1882/C/1237
Historical source images
Historical source images are scanned copies of the records which are from the informant to the event. These images include scans of original registration forms collected from the informant of a marriage or death or the parents of a child in the case of a birth.
Not all events will have source images.
We have made sure you get the best quality image of each record—age will affect the condition and how easy some records are to read.
We do not provide prints of images. The historical image you buy will be available for you to download and print from your own computer after you pay (from the receipt page) and in your QGov account.
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Francis JONES age 68 born Missouri, farmer. Residing Yolo county California 1875
Francis JONES last census sighting 1870 Saline Missouri, in the house of daughter Mary Anne THORP.
Mary Anne Jones married William MARSHALL in 1850. He died in 1869.
Mary Anne married Richard THORP in Saline in 1869.
She died in Saline in 1893. Census shows her born about 1828. So this would indicate that Francis Jones had his own children (a previous marriage?) before marrying Catherine Hover. Looks as if there was also a daughter named Grace Jones born abt 1833.
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His son Francis Peter Stover was born in Queensland, Australia in 1861, and I have been scratching my head where or when he died and/or married, as he doesn't appear anywhere around the country. Now we know at least that he went to the states. Would be interesting to know if he received any response.
I’m not sure why your think Francis Peter Stover went to America.
His father was looking for him 1890 and advertised in a Rockhampton paper.
There are records of Francis Peter Stover in QLD in 1911 and 1913
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I just received a copy of William Tinsley Stover marriage details to first wife Mary Ryan and his parents are listed as Francis Stover & Catherine Stover, Farmers.
I have searched again for details for Francis Peter Stover after his birth without success, checking every area known to me, But could you assist with where he was in 1911 & 1913. I have been checking all the old newspapers, in all states, but it is nearly impossible because in a lot of cases, digitisation drops the last letter "r" and we have "stove", and Advertising adds get located in Family Search areas.
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Joseph Peter Stover - Owner or occupier owing rates 1913 Nrth Rockhampton
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/53294390?searchTerm=%22Francis%20Peter%20Stover%22
Sep 1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/53224654?searchTerm=%22Francis%20Peter%20Stover%22
December 1911
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/53224654?searchTerm=%22Francis%20Peter%20Stover%22
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This is a very random post, as it is all bits and pieces of what I found, whether right or wrong!
I had been looking long and hard at a Francis Stover who lived at 66-mile Siding (area of Normanton). He was sometimes listed as a labourer, and more often as a wood cutter, probably for the steam trains. (took forever to find that yes, they were using wood, not coal). I could follow him from 1908 to 1919 on electoral registers; the only problem is how long would someone remain on the registers once deceased, as I think your Francis died in 1916.
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Unrelated finds from the above:
From the Queensland Gazette, April 1883, someone thought he lived in Grass Tree, as he, denoted as Francis Peter Stover, had unclaimed mail.
The March 1885 Queensland Gazette shows unclaimed mail for Francis Peater [sic] Stover, at Emerald.
Again from the Gazette, Feb 1890, someone thought he lived in Jundah, as again, unclaimed mail for the full name of Francis Peter Stover. (The following December is when his father put the notice in the paper for him, so perhaps it was him).
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In 1897, Francis Peter Stover was arrested in Camooweal. the date of commitment to trial was 04 Mar 1897 in the District Court of Cloncurry, with an actual trial date of 04 Oct 1887. The charge was"false pretences" committed against Wm. Beaumont. His sentence was 5 months to be served in the Normanton Gaol. Arresting officer was Const. P. Meldon. There is an asterisk next to Francis' name, which corresponds to • Released under " The Offenders Probation Act of 1896."
The bolded Normanton connection is why I think it may be the same man as the 66 mile Siding fellow.
In 1916, there is a news article of deceased persons that had no wills, so the government was acting as administrator for. It included a Frank Stover, late of Morestone station, another small train hub that connected to 66 mile Siding.
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-northern-herald-frank-stover-moresto/151010695/
As to the 1911 and 1913 articles that Neale posted, the definitions of "occupier" and "owner" under the Local Authorities Act of 1902 can be found here: http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/qld/hist_act/laao19022evn19305/ on roughly page 9 or 10. Francis may never have set foot on the properties, and I am wondering if perhaps they passed to him when his father died in 1907. William T does not seem to appear on any will or intestate list for Queensland.
Lastly, if you look for the death of "Frank Stover" in 1916, you will find nothing. I took a look for all Frank's with no surname that died in Queensland 1916, and I think the following should be him:
Name Frank Strover [sic]
Death Date 25 May 1916
Death Place Queensland
Registration Place Australia
Registration Number 003102
Page number 1934
PS: I have had no luck finding any news article on the arrest or trial in 1897. Still looking!
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I think the "Woodcutter" is our Francis Peter Stover even though he dropped off his middle name.
I did a phone call today with Queensland BDM about the 1916 find for Frank Strover being possibily our Francis Peter Stover. They said if it is not on their online index system, they couldn't help me. After a bit of encouragement, he agreed to try the Registration Number to see what popped up, but said that number belonged to someone else. Suggested that I try the State Library and go through the Archives.
About 8-10 years ago, the Qld BDM system was similar to a Excel system and very hard to follow sometimes. I cannot do that for a little while, but will check it out as soon as I can.
My thinking is if he died alone in Normanton, most likely no one there would know who his parents would be, unless he left some paperwork behind where he lived.