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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: tillyann on Saturday 29 June 24 05:22 BST (UK)
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Hi Everyone,
I have been researching a British soldier (in the Band by the looks of it), James Whitaker, in the 25th Regiment of Foot Kings Own Borderers who went AWOL from Christmas Day 1801 to 24 June 1804. He is still in the Army in 1817 when he is discharged. I thought they would have locked him up or shot him back then.
I only have downloads of the record that I cant post on here but if anyone can look up his record I'd really appreciate some help/thoughts about it.
Thanks
TillyAnn
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There are two separate offences under military law: desertion and being absent without leave (AWOL). The former occurs when a soldier absconds with the intention of never returning to his unit. Absence is a short term thing, for instance due to some family or domestic situation or drunkenness etc, with the soldier often returning to his Regiment voluntarily.
Desertion was viewed in two ways: ordinary desertion would usually be punished by imprisonment, loss of pay and seniority, and reduction in rank if appropriate. But desertion in the face of the enemy (ie during active operations) was much more serious and had overtones of cowardice and letting down one's mates, and frequently lead to capital punishment by firing squad. This was particularly so during WW1 when it was deemed necessary to maintain discipline in an army largely made up of civilians. Obviously for James to be missing for a period of years, that would have been classed as desertion.
During the period 1801 - 1805 the 25th Regiment of Foot were in briefly in Gibraltar then England, so this wasn't desertion in the face of the enemy.
FindMyPast only has one reference to a James Whitaker (or Whittaker) serving in the 25th at that time, and it is taken from WO25/949 (https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4397809) at TNA. This series of records has not been digitized, but the entry has been transcribed as James Whitaker having enlisted in the 1st Battalion 25th Regiment of Foot on 14 Apr 1801. If he was in the band, the chances are that he enlisted as a boy soldier and as such he would have treated much more leniently if he deserted before reaching the age pf 18.
Where did you find the references to his service?
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Hi Andy,
Thank you for explaining that.
I have been thinking he must have had a good reason to abscond for 2.5 years.
I accessed the record a few years ago on Fold3 (l'm pretty sure) when there was open access on Remembrance Day.
I have worked out that he was at Weedon (Bec) when he was discharged in 1817, part of which was a military prison.
He was around 24 when he took off.
Tilly Ann
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One of my ancestors deserted in the 1850s. He was punished by being branded with the letter D on his chest. I think this was done with an instrument consisting of a number of metal spikes formed into a D shape.
Martin
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Several newspapers reported the 25th sailing for Egypt late May 1801 - see item snipped from Salisbury & Winchester Journal 1 June 1801.
The London Gazette, 22 Oct 1801, reported the 25th in action at Alexandria.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/15419/page/1281
Newspaper reports have the 25th landing Gibraltar 18 November 1801 for garrison duty.
When did James attest?
A pension record on FindMyPast has a Jas Whitaker, 25 Regt of Foot, residence Bury Lane, being admitted to pension (1s 0d), on 26 Nov 1817 - died 22 Nov 1844
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Sounds horrendous Martin.
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Hi Hanes,
The record (UK Regimental Registers of Service 1756 - 1900 for James Whitaker 25th Foot Soldiers 1st Battalion 1810 - 1818) I have states James Whitaker was 24 but doesn't give me any dates so l dont know when it was written.
There is no attestment date and the earliest date on the record is 25 Dec 1801.
I haven't seen the Chelsea Pension Record but l'd be surprised if he had a pension given his misdemeanour.
Regards
Tillyann
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What was his discharge date? If it is 25 Nov 1817 it "fits" his pension starting 27 Nov 1817.
Cannot reconcile his absconding Christmas Day 1801 - when by all accounts the regiment was abroad?
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The record (UK Regimental Registers of Service 1756 - 1900 for James Whitaker 25th Foot Soldiers 1st Battalion 1810 - 1818)
I can't find that record !
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Hi Shaun.
I'd love to upload it but l'm not allowed to l'm pretty sure. I can only describe it.
I wish l'd paid more attention when l found it now.
I didn't save the url unfortunately.
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What was his discharge date? If it is 25 Nov 1817 it "fits" his pension starting 27 Nov 1817.
Cannot reconcile his absconding Christmas Day 1801 - when by all accounts the regiment was abroad?
His discharge date was 16 September 1817.
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Found the record (continues on next page): https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/3253/images/40940_2000729081-00298
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Oh great work Shaun.
Are you able to make out what it says?
Some of it l can't read.
Did it lead to any other documents about him particularly his age. Is there a date anywhere in the citation etc for that one?
I'm trying to claim this guy as an ancestor. He is 24 but when was that? How long was he incarcerated in Weedon. If l had the document date l could hopefully progress.
I'm not currently on Ancestry so can't look at it. I'm just working my way through documents l've collected atm.
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A pension record on FindMyPast has a Jas Whitaker, 25 Regt of Foot, residence Bury Lane, being admitted to pension (1s 0d), on 26 Nov 1817 - died 22 Nov 1844
More likely that would be Bury, Lancashire.
Possible burial on LAN-OPC:
Burial: 27 Nov 1844 St Mary the Virgin, Bury, Lancashire
James Whittaker -
Age: 65 years
Abode: Freetown
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Hi Shaun,
Thanks.
I looked up that James Whitaker (the one with the Chelsea Pension) and he went to Sierra Leone.
The James Whitaker who deserted isn't him. He was from Bury and was discharged in September not November.
It is a pity there are no dates on his record. It would help a lot to know when he was 24 years old.
The records is described on Ancestry as 1810 - 1818. If it was 1801 to 1818 everything would fit for who l'm looking for. It could be human error l guess.
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The storehouses at Weedon were converted I believe after James left service. Building was still in progress 1804 - 1816 when they were building the 8 main storehouses and the 4 magazines. In around 1837 numbers 5 & 7 were converted to barracks and a prison.
A good detailed piece on the Historic England site also backs this up.
Tazzie
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Are you able to make out what it says?
James Whitaker
Height 5' 8"
Age 24 (I think that must be age at Attestation - so he was born circa 1786/7)
Complexion Fresh
Visage Round
Eyes Grey
Hair Brown
Born "Barry" Lancashire
Occupation Weaver
Served in West Indies from 22nd February 1808
Attested at Stockport, Cheshire in April 1801
Deserted 25 December 1901
Rejoined 24 June 1804
Discharged 16 September 1817 at Weedon /Recommended/
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I looked up that James Whitaker (the one with the Chelsea Pension) and he went to Sierra Leone.
Where did you find that he went to Sierra Leone?
I think it is very likely that the pensioner who died in Bury in 1844 was the same soldier who deserted on Christmas Day 1801.
There are possible explanations for the discharge date disparity:
1. a short period of further service between approval of discharge and actual discharge (very common), or
2. a delay between discharge and being accepted for out-pension, for some reason.
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I looked up that James Whitaker (the one with the Chelsea Pension) and he went to Sierra Leone.
Where did you find that he went to Sierra Leone?
On Family Search Shaun. Lived in Sierra Leone and buried in Bury. I just put in James Whitaker Sierra Leone as search terms just then. The record says he was
born in 1779 but it isn't the person l'm looking for.
I also think your 2nd point- delay in pension is where the confusion has happened for me re dates.
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Hi Tazzie.
Thanks for the information.
It doesn't appear this is the person l'm looking for.
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Shaun
I needed this soldier to have died in Huttock End, Rossendale 24 September 1844. Had that been the case l'd have claimed him.
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On Family Search Shaun. Lived in Sierra Leone and buried in Bury. I just put in James Whitaker Sierra Leone as search terms just then.
Family search showed you that result because he lived in "Freetown" per the burial record. But it was Freetown, Bury, Lancashire not Freetown in Sierra Leone (!) At least it made me laugh.
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Family search showed you that result because he lived in "Freetown" per the burial record. But it was Freetown, Bury, Lancashire not Freetown in Sierra Leone (!) At least it made me laugh.
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Oh right lol.
As you can see, l still don't have a great strike rate doing quotes either!