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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: TWad70 on Wednesday 26 June 24 08:02 BST (UK)
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Hi.
I am new to this and hoping someone can help. My 2x Great Grandmother Ellen Carroll arrived in Australia in 1875 from Kilkenny Ireland with her family as follows:
Father: Patrick b. Circa 1840
Mother: Margaret b. circa 1837 (I believe maiden name Weldon or Weldone?)
Siblings:
Alice b circa 1856
Margaret b. circa 1858
Ellen b. circa 1860 (my GG Grandmother)
Michael b. circa 1861
Mary b. circa 1863
Also think that the eldest boy Thomas b circa 1857 arrived separately possibly 1878?
I am looking to confirm birthdates and parents of Patrick and Margaret
Thanks in advance
Tracey :)
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Hello and welcome to RootsChat. :)
Margaret CARROLL
QLD Death registration 1905/C/3400
Date 11/11/1905
Mother’s name - Margaret Tobin
Father’s name - Thomas Weldon
(Do you have this document? If so please provide all details)
Ship’s manifest margin note gives her birth date as 5/7/1833
Patrick CARROLL
QLD Death rego 1901/C/4127 (Do you have this document?)
Date 5/11/1901
Mother’s name – Bridget Bourke
Father’s name – Patrick Carroll
(Do you have this document? If so please provide all details)
There is an inquest into his death available from QLD state archives
Baptism for Margaret Carroll 26 Apr. 1857 St Johns Kilkenny, (Diocese – Ossory)
Parents Patrick Carroll and Margaret Weldon
Abode Maudlin. Godparent - Judith Fitzpatrick
https://www.townlands.ie/kilkenny/fassadinin/kilmacar/kilmacar/maudlin/
Baptism for Ellen Carroll 18 Apr. 1859, St Patrick's, Kilkenny city
Parents Patrick Carroll and Margaret Wildon
Abode Watkin Row. Godparent – Margaret McAvoy
Baptism for Michael Carrol 16 July 1861 St Canice's, Kilkenny city
Parents Pat Carroll and Margaret Weldin
Abode Water….? Godparents – Patrick Saunders, Bridget Moylan.
If Mary was the last born in 1863, this was before civil registration in Ireland.
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There is also this with a different forename for mother
Thomas Carroll baptised 25th April 1866 St John Kilkenny
Parents Patrick Carroll and Bridget Weldon
Abode Maudlin
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
NLI Catholic Parish Registers
St. John's, Kilkenny city
Diocese of Ossory | County of Kilkenny
Variant names: St. Johns, Kilkenny City
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0991
St. Patrick's, Kilkenny city
Diocese of Ossory | County of Kilkenny
Variant forms of parish name:
St. Patrick's, Kilkeny City
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0993
St. Canice's, Kilkenny city
Diocese of Ossory | County of Kilkenny
Variant forms of parish name:
St. Canice's
Kilkenny City
St. Canice's, Kilkenny City
https://registers.nli.ie/parishes/0990
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Thanks to you both. I am in the process of getting the certificates for Patrick and Margaret and will add further details.
This helps close a couple of gaps.
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Can I recommend the historical source image, which is most economical and quickest to purchase.
Historical source images
Historical source images are scanned copies of the records which are from the informant to the event. These images include scans of original registration forms collected from the informant of a marriage or death or the parents of a child in the case of a birth.
We have made sure you get the best quality image of each record—age will affect the condition and how easy some records are to read.
We do not provide prints of images. The historical image you buy will be available for you to download and print from your own computer after you pay (from the receipt page) and in your QGov account.
https://www.familyhistory.bdm.qld.gov.au/#
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Hi
So I have the historical source images for Margaret and Patrick.
Margaret is confirmed dead at 78 years on 11/11/1905
Father: Thomas Weldon
Mother Margaret Tobin
Married to Patrick Carroll at 22 yrs in Kilkenny Ireland and spent 30 yrs in Queensland
Survived by Children
Margaret aged 44
Ellen aged 42
Michael aged 39
Mary aged 38
Thomas aged 37
Alice was deceased by that date
That almost matches what I have, but Margaret's DOB seems out of line and the ages of the children seem to be out by about 3-4 years against the shipping records and birth records from Ireland. Is this common?
Thanks Neale1961 for you suggestion on the records.
Cheers
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Forgot to add that the record for Patrick Carroll doesn't match. Says he was married to Mary Ryan and there are different children listed. I guess I keep looking for his death
T
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Are you able to attach Margaret's death certificate, or transcribe the whole detail (every single word) and post, please. All bits of detail are important - place names, peoples names, occupations, etc...
It is fairly normal for ages to be a little out, and information on death records is only as accurate as the memory or knowledge of the informant.
The more information you have about the family, the easier it might be to find Patrick's death. What was his occupation? Where were the family living? Where did Alice die? Where did Margaret die?
The marriage certificates of the various children will be useful in giving information about their father, his occupation, and if he was still alive when they married. Have you found mention of him or the family in the newspapers?
You may already have this information. If so, it would be useful to post it all here.
There are a number of Patrick Carroll death registrations, and so you would look at ways to narrow it down. Just looking at the children's names, I see there is a death in 1899 with parents Michael and Mary. These are names of 2 of his children - so it is a possibility.
So many possibilities to explore.
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Thanks Neale
See attached for Margaret. I have been searching QLD BDM for Deaths for Patrick and then trying to match these through Trove to try and find/eliminate possible matches. I must admit the 1901 death looked most promising, but I'm guessing this is part of the challenge/fun of researching :)
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Thanks for posting that information. I now know where she died, and other relevant details. ;)
A couple of quick notes (I have to go out) ……
Margaret’s death certificate does not let us know whether her husband had predeceased her. Just because her son was informant, does not necessarily indicate that Patrick was dead.
Margaret is buried in the Mount Morgan Cemetery. Her husband’s name does not appear on the index of the same cemetery.
You might search the cemetery indexes in the same area to see if you can find him. ( Sorry, I don’t have time right now)
https://www.rockhamptonregion.qld.gov.au/CouncilServices/Cemeteries/Burial-Indexes
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Thanks. Appreciate all your time and energy! I will do some more digging (pardon the pun) before I come back with more questions
T
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Hi Tracey
Who did Ellen Carroll marry? Where and when? Do you have that marriage certificate?
From Margaret's death certificate, we know that Thomas was not the oldest child, but the youngest - born abt 1864-65. So theoretically there should be a birth registration for him somewhere in Ireland.
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Alice CARROLL marriage 1875 Rockhampton to Jens / James PETERSEN (1852-1912)
Alice PETERSEN died 4-7-1899
Children (births are not registered) –
• Margaret PETERSEN died 1878 (infant?)
• John Michael PETERSEN born 3/11/1881; died 1953 (railway staff 1910)
• Thomas James PETERSEN born 16/4/1884; died 1936 (railway staff 1908)
• August PETERSEN born 1886; died 1941
• Alice PETERSEN born 1888 Mt Morgan; died 1985
Margaret Louisa CARROLL married 1879 Rockhampton to Charles JOHNSON
Margaret died Brisbane 1943
Children –
• Margaret Louisa 1879 - 1977
• Elizabeth Anna 1883 - 1912
• Kathleen Cecily 1887 - 1970
• Charles William 1889 - 1967
• Bridget Ann 1891 - Annie? -died 1916
• Henry Albert Victor 1892 - 1917
• Ernest Frederick 1895 – 1974
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I think Patrick Carroll may have been working on the railway. Information gleaned from Mary's marriage place and noted Trove article.
Mary CARROLL married 1882 Bogantungan to Joseph Albert WOLFE
Mary died 1953 Cairns
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/42793693?searchTerm=%22Mrs%20M%20Wolfe%22
Children –
• Joseph Albert 1882
• Ruby Maude 1884
• Thomas Archibald 1886
• Ellen 1888
• Amy 1889
• Elijah 1891
• Rose Ann 1893
• Margaret Mary 1894
• Mary 1896
• John Weldon 1898
• Alice Josephina 1900
• Nigel James 1902
• Edmund Claude 1904
(No child named Patrick - interesting ???)
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Hi Neale
Thanks for the added detail on Alice, Margaret and Mary. I had some of this information but not all.
I don't have Ellens marriage cert, but she is my 2x Great Grandmother (I'm chasing this through a relative who I think has a copy). She married Issac Joseph Chamberlain in 1882 and they had 9 children. This is my direct lineage so I have pieced their details together.
The railway is a big thing, as Issac was an engineer and helped build the line from Rockhampton to Barcaldine. I knew Mary's husband did some work on the line as well, but I suspect the Carroll's may have travelled in a pack!
I need to head out but will keep digging over the next few days
Cheers
T
I have
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I would advise that you keep tracing the Carroll children. Their marriage certificates may well provide information about whether the father was dead or alive. In depth and detailed research will probably yield results. Also looking for newspaper obituaries for the children, can reveal information about other family members. Some family members seem to end up in Toowoomba and Brisbane, so Patrick may have died in those areas.
Some detail about ....
Thomas CARROLL born abt 1865, married 16 April 1898 where? Rockhampton? to Kate Cronin WARD
Thomas died Brisbane 1936
Children –
• Alice Eileen 1905
• Noel John 1910; died 1984
• Owen Patrick 17 Feb 1915; died 19 Feb 1915
• Vincent 1917; died 1919
NOTICE
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/70572766?searchTerm=%22Thomas%20Carroll%22
(There is a Thomas Carroll onboard the Scottish Bard 1876 – age 10. That puts his birth about 1865/66 as we thought. That baptism I posted earlier may be his- just an error in mother’s name.
It would be unusual to find a young lad travelling alone. He may have been accompanied by someone else. Passenger list does not help, as it is just alphabetical. I note there is a Mary Carroll age 22 (single) onboard – she may or may not be related.
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This link mentions Michael CARROLL a carter, of Rockhampton. Maybe son Pat?
1883.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52074683
Again about the carting business this time Thomas CARROLL. Alice’s (nee CARROLL) husband Jens PETERSEN was known as James PETERSEN.
1888
Here there is an issue over a debt in Rockhampton and James PETERSEN and Thomas CARROLL are in court. Thomas CARROLL was “a partner in a dray till recently” with PETERSEN then Carroll bought him out, becoming the owner of the dray.
It is stated they are brothers in law.
Thomas is unmarried lived about one hundred yards away from PETERSEN,
in a humpy with his mother.
No mention of her husband and certainly sounds impoverished.
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/52017433 .
I am not sure about this one, but in the business of drays and carting, Patrick CARROLL sues for unpaid money for hire of a dray.
1889
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/68194210
Sue
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Thanks Sue
I am slowly trawling through Trove for both funeral notices and other articles of interest in relation to the Carroll's and piecing bits together. These articles seem to match up, particularly the Jens Pettersen story. hoping to narrow down when and where Patrick died so I can trace back to his parents.
Thanks to all for your assistance so far :D
Tracey