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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: rsel on Tuesday 25 June 24 10:43 BST (UK)
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All,
I have split this off from the discussion on the ongoing beta discussion, as its now being made available to all the UK users.
I bit the bullet an purchased the pro-tools option, despite the extra cost, as i was very keen to get the enhanced shared matches. For those of you that don't know what this is, its the new shared matches view that Ancestry discussed earlier in the year, which allows you to see the amount of DNA (in cM) for both you and the person you are looking at for each shared match ( a bit like MyHeritage does).
So far i am generally happy with the update as provided, in that it now gives me the extra info i needed to fully use the DNA Painter WATO tool to start identifying relationships. That said there are a few little glitches :
- Paging - Like the BETA main display, the shared matches are now a paged list instead, however it just shows the current page number and the two arrow buttons. The only way you know there are multiple page or not is that the arrows slightly change colour to a greyed out shade which is not very obvious. When you finally get to the last page though, do you suddenly get the ' of x' added to the page counter
- Sorting - You can only sort based on your match details and not the person you are viewing so its hard to spot the closest relations of the person you are looking at
- page loading - sometimes when navigating the pages the new page does not load/display fully leaving you with either the original page (and a new page number) or you only get some of the details loaded
Richard
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My sub expired last month so I've had to jump on for a month of basic membership to unlock the pro tools offer then pay for a month on pro tools too. My results came back about 2 years ago and rarely see matches over 20cM as a rule and won't be running pro tools continuously. I have learned a few bits and bobs from the shared cM details I've viewed.
As sub 20cM matches that were previously 'invisible' also get pulled into the mix it could be useful to some extent but the age old problem of no tree/private tree & no profile matches from overseas is still an issue.
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the age old problem of no tree/private tree & no profile matches from overseas is still an issue.
It can help with the no tree/private tree, if there name displayed gives you some clues to get started with :-) I had one match that i could not place originally due to no tree, but triangulating via the shared matches i have now managed to find where he fits into the tree. However, i do have another similar match that i can't narrow down, as i can't find any hints from there name, so the DNA triangluation gives a number of different possible locations.
That said, if you don't have any many close matches the triangulation wont help much
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Does anybody know, if you attach your dna results to the correct person, but in another tree that you either own or manage, do the Pro Tools facilities transfer and work on that tree?
I was thinking particularly of the Tree Checker, which I have found helpful and would like to apply it to my other trees, rather than just the one to which my current dna is attached.
Pheno
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I was thinking particularly of the Tree Checker, which I have found helpful and would like to apply it to my other trees, rather than just the one to which my current dna is attached.
Hi Pheno,
The Pro Tools are not specifically linked to your DNA results or an individual tree, they are linked to your ancestry account itself. I have multiple different trees, and the tree checker is available on all of them (not that i intend to use it on them).
For the DNA side, i have 2 test i manage (plus my own), and have access to another persons results and i am seeing the enhanced natches on all 4 sets of results
Richard
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Thanks Richard. I was wondering how I would apply it to other trees and assumed it tracked the dna, but I see now that if I change trees on the home page the tree checker applies itself to whichever tree I have chosen.
Thanks, Pheno
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Agree with the pro tools working with multiple dna results whether they be managed or just through viewing rights. It's a step up from MH which can exclude additional kits unless they are uploaded during a special offer period and has limited collaboration numbers.
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One thing to look out for. Tagging a DNA match to a group or adding a note while you're in the ProTools part doesn't work, and I've read reports that editing messes up existing notes. I have been moving to the Trees tab to add notes and that works ok but is a pain. Hopefully they fix it soon.
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Please can I just check something about Pro Tools. I assume this is not the same as a chromosome browser which GedMatch and My Heritage have - is that right?
I have matches on Ancestry where I know the common ancestor but don't know which segments of which chromosomes we share, including one fairly close match, and then I have equally close matches on My Heritage and GedMatch where I know the which segments we share but can't work out which family they belong to. Unless Ancestry are offering a Chromosome Browser which will enable me to match segments to family and then use DNA Painter to work out who the common ancestor might be, I don't think Pro Tools will help me. Or will they?
Hope that makes sense...
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No segment or chromosome information in pro tools, the major difference introduced is that you can now see how much dna two matches share with each other.
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Please can I just check something about Pro Tools. I assume this is not the same as a chromosome browser which GedMatch and My Heritage have - is that right?
I have matches on Ancestry where I know the common ancestor but don't know which segments of which chromosomes we share, including one fairly close match, and then I have equally close matches on My Heritage and GedMatch where I know the which segments we share but can't work out which family they belong to. Unless Ancestry are offering a Chromosome Browser which will enable me to match segments to family and then use DNA Painter to work out who the common ancestor might be, I don't think Pro Tools will help me. Or will they?
Hope that makes sense...
Hi,
As mentioned by Glen in Tinsal , the pro tools doesn't include anything other than showing the amount of shared DNA for you matches. So no chromosome browser, or any number of other DNA tools that you might find on the other sites (i have a massive internal list of improvements i would like Ancestry to make :-) ).
Where i have found the share cM amounts useful is when i have say 6-7 known matches who all match to another tester. I build a small tree using the WATO tool and enter the cM amounts. This has then given me a lot more accurate picture of where the unknown match fits in, so i can focus on that area of the tree to try and find them.
Richard
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Thank you Glen and Richard.
I guess we just have to wait and hope Ancestry will introduce a Chromosome Browser eventually, although I take your point about knowing how much DNA shared matches have in common.
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Ancestry have repeatedly cited privacy as the reason for not having a chromosome browser but now we can (for a fee), see that 'x' is a sibling/parent/cousin of 'y' and both are very much alive. The two situations seem at odds with each other.
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Ancestry have repeatedly cited privacy as the reason for not having a chromosome browser but now we can (for a fee), see that 'x' is a sibling/parent/cousin of 'y' and both are very much alive. The two situations seem at odds with each other.
Yeah that's just a stupid excuse. It's relativity easy to work out a lot more personal/private info from the records on file, that's more dangerous than shared segment data. Plus, why not give people the option to opt out of sharing it if they really want to ?
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While it would be useful to have access to the cMs shared between shared matches for some matches, since it should eliminate some individuals as the source of NPEs it doesn't warrant paying out for the tools at this point in time.
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While it would be useful to have access to the cMs shared between shared matches for some matches, since it should eliminate some individuals as the source of NPEs it doesn't warrant paying out for the tools at this point in time.
Totally agree, i will probably cancel the subscription quite quickly, after i have used it on the few cases that i really wanted it on.
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If you are just working on your own tree then a month with pro tools every so often is probably sufficient though if more realised sharing results and answering messages is a free alternative we might not have been forced to pay for the information.
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If you are just working on your own tree then a month with pro tools every so often is probably sufficient though if more realised sharing results and answering messages is a free alternative we might not have been forced to pay for the information.
And people who reply to messages don;t always give you the shared cM information you had asked for
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If you are just working on your own tree then a month with pro tools every so often is probably sufficient though if more realised sharing results and answering messages is a free alternative we might not have been forced to pay for the information.
And people who reply to messages don;t always give you the shared cM information you had asked for
I chopped out a lot of my original comment which was a bit of a dig at Ancestry relying on the inactive/uncooperative as a lever for charging for the information. After all it's not info they didn't already have as it's used to create match lists in the first place and until recently match lists and parent assignment could be viewed with a free account but they stopped that a couple of months ago.
A sub is now required to se the match list and Pro Tools is an additional monthly fee but it gets better, for those in the UK and Australia who haven't already signed up for pro tools the price has just gone up (UK is now£7.99). I paid £4.99 and that's the price at renewal on my account page but I'm thinking it will change just before it's due to be paid again.
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I can't see this mentioned here.
But Ancestry will be increasing the number of groups you can put DNA matches into - to 64 - rather than the current 24.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=LgNpaoNUBqU
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Signed up for Pro Tools.
On my Wife’s tree her highest match is 187cM and is a known 1C2R on her Maternal side.
The next Shared DNA match shares 38cM with her and her 4xGGP’s is their MRCA.
Now this 38cM match also shares 29cM with her 1C2R but this 38cM match is on her Paternal side.
Now her Paternal side is Lancastrian for centuries and the Maternal side via her Grandparents is Dorset for centuries so there is no chance of Pedigree collapse occurring.
Already Pro Tools has thrown up interesting results in that the 1C2R is related to my Wife via his Mum and his Dad is also related to my Wife but we have never found where, the Pro Tools cM sharing tool gives us a better chance of finding the link.
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Already Pro Tools has thrown up interesting results in that the 1C2R is related to my Wife via his Mum and his Dad is also related to my Wife but we have never found where, the Pro Tools cM sharing tool gives us a better chance of finding the link.
Are there any other features currently live?
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Are there any other features currently live?
Pro-tools is only the one DNA function, the rest is stuff around your trees, like enhanced filter options (not really any use), some new reports (nothing of any interest after a 30 secd play), and a tree checker (reports any records with no sources, any potential duplicates, that sort of thing)
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I can't see this mentioned here.
But Ancestry will be increasing the number of groups you can put DNA matches into - to 64 - rather than the current 24.
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=LgNpaoNUBqU
The changes to to groups were in a separate discussion around beta changes to the match list https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883109.0 (https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883109.0)
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
I don't believe they officially will be doing either. However, what i have noticed on the new shared matches is that it is showing matches below 8cM as a shared match. My first thought was they only appear if they have more than 20cM with the match you are looking at, but doesn't seem to hold true, so not sure what causes them to appear.
Richard
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
I don't believe they officially will be doing either. However, what i have noticed on the new shared matches is that it is showing matches below 8cM as a shared match. My first thought was they only appear if they have more than 20cM with the match you are looking at, but doesn't seem to hold true, so not sure what causes them to appear.
Richard
Do you mean you are getting shared matches (in the shared matches tab) below 8cM, but not above?
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
I don't believe they officially will be doing either. However, what i have noticed on the new shared matches is that it is showing matches below 8cM as a shared match. My first thought was they only appear if they have more than 20cM with the match you are looking at, but doesn't seem to hold true, so not sure what causes them to appear.
Richard
Do you mean you are getting shared matches (in the shared matches tab) below 8cM, but not above?
No i am getting them above the old 20cM as before, but now i am also seeing matches down to as low as 6cM in some cases.
What i was trying to say thoughs those matches between 6cM and the old 20cM limit seem to be a bit hit and miss. So for example if i look at my matches with person B, i might see some matches down to 6cM on my side, but with B they look to have over 20cM as the shared DNA. Howver, on my matches with person C, i have some matches down to 6cM, but with C they only share 15cM.
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
I don't believe they officially will be doing either. However, what i have noticed on the new shared matches is that it is showing matches below 8cM as a shared match. My first thought was they only appear if they have more than 20cM with the match you are looking at, but doesn't seem to hold true, so not sure what causes them to appear.
Richard
Do you mean you are getting shared matches (in the shared matches tab) below 8cM, but not above?
No i am getting them above the old 20cM as before, but now i am also seeing matches down to as low as 6cM in some cases.
So you think it's sometimes showing lower than 20cM shared matches, but sometimes not?
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Does anyone know if they will be adding a chromosome browser, or will allow us to see shared matches below 20cM? It's kind of unbelievable they haven't provided that yet.
I don't believe they officially will be doing either. However, what i have noticed on the new shared matches is that it is showing matches below 8cM as a shared match. My first thought was they only appear if they have more than 20cM with the match you are looking at, but doesn't seem to hold true, so not sure what causes them to appear.
Richard
Do you mean you are getting shared matches (in the shared matches tab) below 8cM, but not above?
No i am getting them above the old 20cM as before, but now i am also seeing matches down to as low as 6cM in some cases.
So you think it's sometimes showing lower than 20cM shared matches, but sometimes not?
Basically yes, i suspect there is some logic to it, i just can't figure it out yet :-)
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All,
Just a quick update on the new shared matches feature. I have now been using it for a few weeks, and it has enabled me to make a number of discoveries that i otherwise wouldn't have done. By being able to see how shared matches are related, its enabled me to actually create some family groups for the matches.
For example i had some tests with just usernames or initials, and tree's that had say 1, 2 or 3 people that were just private/living people. However from the shared matches i could see that they were say the grandson/granddaughter of another test that actually had a real name or better quality tree. In one case i have managed to now identify a group of 28 tests, that all share a common ancestor, by linking up a number of smaller family groups. (I just wish though i could link that common ancestor to my family, but that's another challenge, NPE probably :-) )
Even though i have found it a great help, i am still not convinced that its worth the monthly Pro-tools subscription cost. Mainly as the rest of the tools i consider a waste of time/space, and i don't think i would be using the new Shared Matches all the time once i get through my initial usage.
Richard
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All,
Just a quick update on the new shared matches feature. I have now been using it for a few weeks, and it has enabled me to make a number of discoveries that i otherwise wouldn't have done. By being able to see how shared matches are related, its enabled me to actually create some family groups for the matches.
For example i had some tests with just usernames or initials, and tree's that had say 1, 2 or 3 people that were just private/living people. However from the shared matches i could see that they were say the grandson/granddaughter of another test that actually had a real name or better quality tree. In one case i have managed to now identify a group of 28 tests, that all share a common ancestor, by linking up a number of smaller family groups. (I just wish though i could link that common ancestor to my family, but that's another challenge, NPE probably :-) )
Even though i have found it a great help, i am still not convinced that its worth the monthly Pro-tools subscription cost. Mainly as the rest of the tools i consider a waste of time/space, and i don't think i would be using the new Shared Matches all the time once i get through my initial usage.
Richard
I also upgraded to Pro Tools and it's been very helpful. Though charging this price for a feature which can and is offered free as standard is a bit rich. Hopefully they will add on a chromosome browser and extra features.
The big negative with it is that when you open up the new shared matches page and then you open another shared matches page, interacting with the first one will now cause the page to fail and it will take two reloads to open it again. So it's become much slower to go through many matches quickly to catalog them. Please report that to them. There is a feature to make suggestions on the page.
As noted by rsel, it's now much easier to locate clusters of matches who are closely related and quicker find the common point in ancestry. As an example - one of my main mysteries was I have a 94cM match with the only info given being their name, a very common Welsh name. Another match in the cluster was 48cM with the line coming from a Hughes (mother's maiden name - Jones). So it would have to be ordering a birth cert. to proceed with that. With the new data of how they relate, I was able to locate a common ancestor for seven matches through a John Jones (b.c. 1849). But now I have that I am left with no idea how they fit in.
To add to that, I've found a couple of clusters where there were people with no tree, where it now turns out the son or daughter has a tree. So you can then limit your search to one side of that tree, and have a better idea of the shared cM from the parent.