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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Caithness => Topic started by: Isabel Griggs on Monday 24 June 24 09:35 BST (UK)
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Hello, I am trying to find a birth certificate for James Hendry b: 1852, Latheron. He was my Great Grandmother's brother, Johan Hendry.
I found his marriage to Barbara Mackay.
Marriage (041/00 00181):
On the 1st of May 1891at Thurso, Caithness, Scotland James Hendry farm servant/bachelor, aged 38yrs address Hallum Reay, parents Alexander Hendry farm servant and Catherine Hendry nee Calder married Barbara Mackay domestic servant/spinster aged 24yrs address Acharemie, Reay, parents Alexander Mackay crofter/deceased and Catherine Mackay nee Mackay. Witnesses were James Mackay and Annie Hendry. Signed John B Connell Minister of the Free West & Manse, Thurso. Registered on the 2nd of May 1891, Thurso by George Geddes assistant registrar. WM Mackay registrar.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Isabel
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As he was born before the start of civil registration on 1 January 1855, there is no birth certificate to look for.
Unfortunately it looks as if he is one of the many people born before 1855 whoe baptism record, if it ever existed, has not survived.
He's in the 1861 census with parents and siblings, age given as 10, which suggests he was born in 1850/1851 rather than in 1852.
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Good Morning
I'm afraid you won't find a birth certificate. They didn't start in Scotland until 1855.
You can get the younger siblings but not James.
His parents Alexander Hendry and Catherine Calder married at Lathern 2nd Jan 1852.
Their graves are on Find a Grave website at Reay New Cemetery (the age for Alexander seems a bit out)
Alex 1814- 25.7.1887
Catherine Calder Hendy 1825- 21.7.1908
son Donald 1859-1872.
Birth Certs I can see on Scots people for their children
Catharine 1856
William Goldpra 1857
Donald 1859
Mary 1861
Adam 1863
Alexander 1866
Jane 1868
Ann 1870
James 1852 ,Margaret 1853 and John 1855 ish all seem to be before birth Certs came in.
They don't seem to be baptised at the local Church of Scotland either.
1861 census Forse ,Latheron
Alexander 37 ploughman Latheron
Catherine 34 Latheron
James 10
Margaret 8
John 6
Catherine 4
William 2
Donald 1
1871 at Stirkoke Hillhead Cottage Latheron .
ps grandparents look to be William Calder b c1795 fisherman and Janet Sutherland c 1796 married 15.12.1819 and John Hendry b c 1795 and Catherine Sutherland born c 1799.
Does that help?
Ciderdrinker
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I note the previous replies but as I have prepared this I will send it.
I note the 1861 census below on freereg, have you checked the original census records on SP?
I do not see any baptisms for those born before 1855 and only the two statutory registrations below after 1855. It is unlikely that all the records did not survive so it maybe they were not members of any Church, or lacked the funds for baptisms?
BETSY HENDRY mmn BUDGE 1858 LATHERON
CATHERINE HENDRY mmn BUDGE 1859 LATHERON
1861 – Forse, Latherton, all born there,
Alexr HENDRY Head 37 Ploughman
Catherine HENDRY Wife 34 Ploughman's Wife
James HENDRY Son 10 Scholar
Margaret HENDRY Dau 8 Scholar
Johan HENDRY Dau 6 Scholar
Catherine HENDRY Dau 4
William HENDRY Son 2
Donald HENDRY Son 1
Colin
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Donald Henry [sic!, that's the spelling in the entry] b. 1 August, 1859, Nottinghsm, Forse, to Alexander Henry and Catherine Henry, miaden surname Calder.
"Nottingham", according to the Gazetteer for Scotland (https://www.scottish-places.info/towns/townfirst7567.html) was a historical settlement
Catherine Henry b. 11 January 1856, Forse, to Alexander Henry and Catherine Henry, maiden surname Calder
William Henry (actually recorded as William Goldfrap Sheppard Henry (!!) b. 9 October 1857, Bencheilt, Forse, to Alexander Henry and Catherine Henry, maiden surname Calder.
See Canmore and Scotlands Places : Ben-a-Chielt = A farmstead comprising two unroofed buildings, one of which is a long building, two enclosures, and a head-dyke are depicted on the 1st edition of the OS
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He's in the 1861 census with parents and siblings, age given as 10, which suggests he was born in 1850/1851 rather than in 1852.
[/quote]
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry, I should have said that I am looking for an old parish register entry. The 1853 would have been on the Scotland census record. Could well be 1850/51
Appreciate you help,
Isabel
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b. 1 August 1859, Nottingham, Forse, to Alexander Henry and Catherine Henry, maiden surname Calder.
Interesting! Can I ask, please where you found this information on the spelling of the name Hendry/Henry?
All the documents that I have on Alexander Hendry and Catherine Calder the name is spelt 'Hendry'.
Marriage (O.P.R. 038/ 0030 0114):
Hendry/Calder-Alexander Hendry & Catherine Calder Forse were matrimonially contracted on the 25th of Dec and married on the 02 Jan 1852
Thank you so much for this information on 'Nottingham' much appreciated.
"Nottingham", according to the Gazetteer for Scotland (https://www.scottish-places.info/towns/townfirst7567.html) was a historical settlement
Yes, I have his birth record. Thank you. Interesting name :)
William Henry (actually recorded as William Goldfrap Sheppard Henry (!!) b. 9 October 1857, Bencheilt, Forse, to Alexander Henry and Catherine Henry, maiden surname Calder.
This is his marriage record.
Marriage (Statutory Marriages 040/00 0010).:
On the 24th of Dec 1886 at Shebster, Parish of Reay, Caithness, Scotland William GFS Hendry aged 29yrs Bachelor/Farm servant, residence Hallum, Parish of Reay, parents Alexander Hendry Farm Servant and Catherine Hendry nee Calder married Isabella Rosie Munro Spinster/Farm Servant aged 18yrs, usual residence Skinid, Parish of Reay, parents Andrew Munro Farm Servant (deceased) and Dolly Munro nee Rosie. Signed D Munro Minister at Reay. Witnesses: Jas Macbeath and James Hendry. Registered on the 27th of Dec 1886 at Reay George Macleod registrar.
Appreciate this information on Ben-a-Chielt.
See Canmore and Scotlands Places: Ben-a-Chielt = A farmstead comprising two unroofed buildings, one of which is a long building, two enclosures, and a head-dyke are depicted on the 1st edition of the OS
Can't thank you enough for this information you provided.
Kind regards,
Isabel
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I note the previous replies but as I have prepared this I will send it.
I note the 1861 census below on freereg, have you checked the original census records on SP?
I do not see any baptisms for those born before 1855 and only the two statutory registrations below after 1855. It is unlikely that all the records did not survive so it maybe they were not members of any Church, or lacked the funds for baptisms?
BETSY HENDRY mmn BUDGE 1858 LATHERON..... Don't know this family. I take it that 'mmn' stands for mother's name?
CATHERINE HENDRY mmn BUDGE 1859 LATHERON
1861 – Forse, Latherton, all born there, ... I appreciate this information; you never know where it will fit in :)
Colin, this is my family! Johan is my G Grandmother.
Alexr HENDRY Head 37 Ploughman
Catherine HENDRY Wife 34 Ploughman's Wife
James HENDRY Son 10 Scholar
Margaret HENDRY Dau 8 Scholar
Johan HENDRY Dau 6 Scholar
Catherine HENDRY Dau 4
William HENDRY Son 2
Donald HENDRY Son 1
Colin, I appreciate you sending me the information. An interesting snippet... in 1939, Johan known as Johanna married to William Campbell (yes, same person. Robert Manson died) noted her birth as 17 Mar 1851. I haven't found any evidence yet, but you would think that she would know her own birth date? She died on the 2nd of Jan 1941 in South Shields.
Thanks again,
Isabel
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Thank you for the information. I do have the death records for both Alexander and Catherine. Also, the B & D records for son Donald and the birth record for Jane Hendry .[/b]
1861 census Forse ,Latheron
Alexander 37 ploughman Latheron
Catherine 34 Latheron
James 10
Margaret 8
John 6... This is Johan, my G Grandmother.
Catherine 4
William 2
Donald 1
ps grandparents look to be William Calder b c1795 fisherman and Janet Sutherland c 1796 married 15.12.1819 and John Hendry b c 1795 and Catherine Sutherland born c 1799.... Catherine Calder's parents were Adam Calder 1797-1871 and Margaret Gunn 1799-1829. They had four children. Adam married again to Catherine Gunn (don't know if she was a relation to Margaret), and they had 13 children, busy man ;)
Does that help? Every snippet helps and much appreciated. Can't thank you enough for your help.
Kind regards
Isabel
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He's in the 1861 census with parents and siblings, age given as 10, which suggests he was born in 1850/1851 rather than in 1852.
Thank you for your reply. I am sorry, I should have said that I am looking for an old parish register entry. The 1853 would have been on the Scotland census record. Could well be 1850/51
Appreciate you help,
Isabel
The date of 1853 would not have been on the original of any Scottish census. The census never gives a year, let alone a date, of birth so if you have found a census transcription claiming to give a year of birth you need to check the original to see what it says, not what some transcriber thought it might have said.
I always go for the earliest available census for any individual because (a) the parents know best when a child was born and (b) if the child is one of several you can easily see if all the ages make sense.
In this case there is an 8-year-old younger sibling so James cannot have been born in 1853.
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He's in the 1861 census with parents and siblings, age given as 10, which suggests he was born in 1850/1851 rather than in 1852.
I always go for the earliest available census for any individual because (a) the parents know best when a child was born and (b) if the child is one of several you can easily see if all the ages make sense.
In this case there is an 8-year-old younger sibling so James cannot have been born in 1853.
Thank you for your reply. I will take on board your advice. Much appreciated.
1861-Alexander Hendry aged 37yrs was living at Forse, Latheron, Caithness, Scotland with his wife Catherine Hendry nee Calder and their children: James 10yse (scholar), Margaret 8yrs (scholar), Johan 6yrs (scholar), William 2 yrs and Donald 1yr.
Johan aged 6 yrs is my G Grandmother. In 1939 she is in South Shields as Johanna Campbell (yes, same person. Robert Manson 1st husband died) her date of birth is stated as 17 Mar 1851.
This is all very confusing. Her parents married on the 2nd of Jan 1852.
Would appreciate your thoughts.
Isabel
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As she was listed as aged 6 in the 1861 census, with older siblings aged 10 and 8 and younger siblings aged 4, 2 and 1, she has to have been born in 1854 or 1855.
In fact, as the 1861 census was carried out on 7 April 1861, she should have been born between 8 April 1854 and 7 April 1855. Therefore she is more likely to have been born in 1854 than in 1855, and indeed the absence of a formal birth certificate confirms that she must indeed have been born before 31 December 1854.
The younger siblings are
Catherine 4 suggests born 1856/1857 - births index says 1856
William 2 suggests born 1858/1859 - births index says 1857
Donald 1 suggests born 1859/1860 - births index says 1859
Going on to 1871 when the family were in Wick
James 19 -> 1851/1852
Margaret 18 -> 1852/1853
Johan 16 -> 1854/1855
Catherine 15 -> 1855/1856 index says 1856
William 14 -> 1856/1857 index says 1857
Donald 12 -> 1858/1859 index says 1859
Mary 10 -> 1860/1861 index says 1861
Adam 8 -> 1862/1863 index says 1863
Jane 3 -> 1867/1868 index says 1868
Ann 0 -> 1870/1871 index says 1870
So you can see that all the ages listed in 1871 are consistent with the dates of birth registrations after 1855. If the parents got all the younger ones' ages right, why would they get the older ones wrong?
If Alexander H and Catherine Calder married on 2 January 1852, then James was born either before their marriage or indecorously soon afterwards. If they were members of the Church of Scotland this would have resulted in a record in the Latheron Kirk Session minutes of the parents being scolded for antenuptial fornication. However the relevant volume is not (yet?) available at Scotland's People.