RootsChat.Com

Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: JCB55 on Thursday 13 June 24 17:04 BST (UK)

Title: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Thursday 13 June 24 17:04 BST (UK)
This is my first post, having been introduced to this wonderful gathering of minds by the amazing moiramount. Thank you to her, and to Deirdre784, Ladyhawk, softly softly and Heddwch for their highly valued input.

Although a thread exists on my enquiry, I felt it more appropriate to begin a new thread with the information available to me, and to recognise the help of those who have helped me thus far. Although I have dabbled in genealogy a few rimes since the eighties, this venture is a completely new one for me. I am a complete novice when it comes to online research, but am a fast learner.

A DNA test last year shows that my presumed paternal family are not related to me, and that my father is one Arthur Phillips, b 1923 in Pontypridd, and served in the RAF close to my place of birth during the years around my arrival on the planet. I am in touch via Ancestry with the daughter of my first cousin by DNA. Her father, Beric Phillips, was the brother of Arthur.

I am trying initially to obtain Arthur’s military service record, but for that we need to produce a death certificate.

As a result of your initial collective digging, we have unearthed two exciting newspaper articles, one particularly so from an air show close to my place of birth at the time of my conception, the second showing a photograph of Arthur lecturing auxiliary fireman on rescue techniques.

Arthur is said to have died on the Isle of Wight, having retired from piloting the hovercraft ferries. After a telephone chat with the IOW Registry  Office today it seems that is not the case, so he could have died anywhere, or, and this is the most exciting possibility, he may still be alive somewhere.

I am prepared to put a lot of work in on this, but I am also aware of my limitations in both time and ability, and would be eternally grateful for your friendly pointers along the way.


Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Friday 14 June 24 19:41 BST (UK)
Welcome JCB, unfortunately we are not allowed to research people who may still be alive, and despite earlier searches on the other thread, I can’t find a death for him. Especially annoying as we have his birth date.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 15 June 24 20:38 BST (UK)
There is no apparent 1939 register entry for him.  As he is now 101yrs old I thought his entry may be opened giving his full birthdate.   
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 15 June 24 20:42 BST (UK)
I hoped that too, but can't find anything; he's not with his parents, I've looked for all Arthurs with his birthdate, and I've tried close dates to his actual DoB, so can only assume that the entry is badly transcribed so he can't be found easily.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 15 June 24 21:02 BST (UK)
Tree on Ancestry has birthdate as 8.3.23.  Mind you - the same tree displays a marriage record of an Arthur Phillips marrying in Yorkshire in 1937 (14yrs old)!!

That particular couple were both b 1914
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 15 June 24 21:05 BST (UK)
softly softly downloaded the digital image - date of birth was definitely 8 March 1923. But the marriage and his mother's death are wrong on a couple of ancestry trees.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 15 June 24 21:21 BST (UK)
Find My Past offers a probate death in Hampshire (no town listed) on 10 July 2018 of an Arthur Phillips, but there's no Hampshire death listed on the GRO. Will available on the probate site.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 15 June 24 21:45 BST (UK)
GRO Online - That death could be the Arthur Phillips b 1923 died Derbyshire Sept qtr 2018.  Probate was Winchester
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Saturday 15 June 24 21:49 BST (UK)
FindMyPast entry says residence town '-' county Hampshire though (i didn't think that related to the probate registry).
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Sunday 16 June 24 18:59 BST (UK)
Find My Past offers a probate death in Hampshire (no town listed) on 10 July 2018 of an Arthur Phillips, but there's no Hampshire death listed on the GRO. Will available on the probate site.

Worth a go  :)

PHILLIPS ARTHUR 10 July 2018
 25 January 2019 5588026 PROBATE Winchester

The fee for each copy request is £1.50 to download (the £1.50 charge is required by law for the release of public documents. You will receive a copy of the grant of representation and the will if there is one. You can pay online using a debit or credit card.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 17 June 24 07:33 BST (UK)
The only Arthur Phillips death on the GRO in Q3 2018 was in Derbyshire though. But was a 1923 birth.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 17 June 24 09:14 BST (UK)
See reply 7
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 17 June 24 09:18 BST (UK)
See reply 7

Yes but the probate entry says resident town ‘-‘ county Hampshire, so can the probate and the Derbyshire death be the same?
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 10:26 BST (UK)
See reply 7

Yes but the probate entry says resident town ‘-‘ county Hampshire, so can the probate and the Derbyshire death be the same?

It's possible,  his home was in Hampshire but could have been in Derbyshire for some reason when he died,  visiting relatives maybe.
The death certificate would be needed first to make sure the will is the right one.

The story of him dying  on the IOW may hold a clue as it's very close to Hampshire

Any thoughts on this?
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 11:20 BST (UK)
This is on Facebook.  I haven't found the post .A Google search found it

Isle of Wight History | Shanklin Beach & Pier 1927
 
Facebook · Isle of Wight History
170+ reactions · 2 years ago
He was Sq L Arthur Phillips, b 1923. Following his RAF service and ... hovercraft until he retired. I believe he passed away in the early 80s ...
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 11:55 BST (UK)
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883413.0

Other post

Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: cath151 on Monday 17 June 24 12:20 BST (UK)
I see you have some newspaper reports but this one mentions Tavistock
Bradford Observer 18th Sep 1954
Cathy
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 17 June 24 13:13 BST (UK)
This is on Facebook.  I haven't found the post .A Google search found it

Isle of Wight History | Shanklin Beach & Pier 1927
 
Facebook · Isle of Wight History
170+ reactions · 2 years ago
He was Sq L Arthur Phillips, b 1923. Following his RAF service and ... hovercraft until he retired. I believe he passed away in the early 80s ...


That’s brilliant 😀 the op did think he was still alive when his sister died in 2006 though, but death certificate definitely worth buying, and then the will if it is him.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 14:29 BST (UK)
This is on Facebook.  I haven't found the post .A Google search found it

Isle of Wight History | Shanklin Beach & Pier 1927
 
Facebook · Isle of Wight History
170+ reactions · 2 years ago
He was Sq L Arthur Phillips, b 1923. Following his RAF service and ... hovercraft until he retired. I believe he passed away in the early 80s ...


That’s brilliant 😀 the op did think he was still alive when his sister died in 2006 though, but death certificate definitely worth buying, and then the will if it is him.

It was JCB55 who posted it a short time ago. I asked about it on the FB page and he replied.  So no further on really.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 17 June 24 14:33 BST (UK)
This is on Facebook.  I haven't found the post .A Google search found it

Isle of Wight History | Shanklin Beach & Pier 1927
 
Facebook · Isle of Wight History
170+ reactions · 2 years ago
He was Sq L Arthur Phillips, b 1923. Following his RAF service and ... hovercraft until he retired. I believe he passed away in the early 80s ...


That’s brilliant 😀 the op did think he was still alive when his sister died in 2006 though, but death certificate definitely worth buying, and then the will if it is him.

It was JCB55 who posted it a short time ago. I asked about it on the FB page and he replied.  So no further on really.

Ah, definitely the death certificate then, esp as there is the puzzle with the probate doc.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 16:24 BST (UK)
Found on Historic Newspapers but I don't subscribe to see full image.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 16:40 BST (UK)
History of Leconfield

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Leconfield
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 20:53 BST (UK)
So, whats £1.50  :D cant` even get a half of lager for that.
 I went for it and got the will. No clues about his occupation.
There are daughters named who may be living but his wife has probably died.
15 years between he made the will and when he died.
Will
Arthur Phillips of The Brooklands Middleton by Youlgrave Bakewell
Executor wife Lavinia Mary Phillips and two  daughters R M and A , both married.
Signed 3 April 2003

Grant of probate
Arthur Phillips Lathkill Lea Conksbury Lane Youlgrove Bakewell died 10 July 2018
Executors   the two daughters
Possible marriage
Marriage
Jan 1951 Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Name   Arthur Phillips
Spouse    Lavinia M Worthington
Marriage Jan 1951 Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom



 
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Monday 17 June 24 20:55 BST (UK)
Probate granted at Winchester.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: MollyC on Monday 17 June 24 21:07 BST (UK)
Quote
Middleton by Youlgrave Bakewell
Quote
Youlgrove Bakewell

Both should be Youlgreave.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 17 June 24 21:21 BST (UK)
That’s the problem isn’t it! Even the death certificate may not give any details to help determine if it’s the one we’re looking for. But not a Hampshire residence…..
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: nestagj on Tuesday 18 June 24 13:30 BST (UK)
Quote
Marriage
Jan 1951 Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom
Name   Arthur Phillips
Spouse    Lavinia M Worthington
Marriage Jan 1951 Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom

Possibly the marriage certificate as well as there may be clues in the witnesses !
Nesta
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Tuesday 18 June 24 13:44 BST (UK)
I have a major breakthrough. (Albeit an expensive one!)

A tracing agency has found his death, in Barry, Glamorgan on 22 Sep 2014.
He married Kathleen Caroline Mary Grieshaber (b 1937) in 1990, so it is to that family that I shall now turn for recent knowledge of his life.
Thanks, all, I'll keep you posted and look here for any further news.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 18 June 24 14:15 BST (UK)
That possible marriage and death were mentioned by softly softly in your earlier post.

Is there anything to guarantee this is your Arthur (father / witnesses at the marriage or occupation) as there are several entries for an Arthur born in Barry in 1923 over the years. Can’t remember what now - will check - but it made me think the Barry one wasn’t yours.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:02 BST (UK)
I agree, a marriage certificate should show his fathers name .
 I have found some records to suggest Kathleen Caroline Mary was a Collins
So the certificate should have a father of that name.
There is a marriage of Collins and Grieshaber,  and following that is the birth of 2 children one of which could be alive.
I'm not putting more , as a tracing agency could have already found all that.
Kathleen died in 2015. Registered Bridgend
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:28 BST (UK)
I agree, a marriage certificate should show his fathers name .
 I have found some records to suggest Kathleen Caroline Mary was a Collins
So the certificate should have a father of that name.
There is a marriage of Collins and Grieshaber,  and following that is the birth of 2 children one of which could be alive.
I'm not putting more , as a tracing agency could have already found all that.
Kathleen died in 2015. Registered Bridgend
Thanks, I had all of that confirmed in my tree this morning.
I am in touch with one Grieshaber tree owner who is unfortunately not related to Kathleen.
I await the response of my message to the other, who clearly is!
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:46 BST (UK)
Have you got certificates though? Waiting for tree owners to reply (some of whom never do) is frustrating. And some trees are full of incorrect information.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:50 BST (UK)
I agree, a marriage certificate should show his fathers name .
 I have found some records to suggest Kathleen Caroline Mary was a Collins
So the certificate should have a father of that name.
There is a marriage of Collins and Grieshaber,  and following that is the birth of 2 children one of which could be alive.
I'm not putting more , as a tracing agency could have already found all that.
Kathleen died in 2015. Registered Bridgend
Thanks, I had all of that confirmed in my tree this morning.
I am in touch with one Grieshaber tree owner who is unfortunately not related to Kathleen.
I await the response of my message to the other, who clearly is!

Can I ask how long the tracing agency took to track him down, just wondering.    ???
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:52 BST (UK)
Have you got certificates though? Waiting for tree owners to reply (some of whom never do) is frustrating. And some trees are full of incorrect information.
Death certificate is en route to the agency, and will be with me in 10 days.
Marriage certificate applied for, awaiting a call from Vale of Glamorgan to take the payment.
I agree, though ..... it's now up to the tree owner to make contact.
Luckily I'm going away on holiday on Thursday so the wait will be easier  ;D.
John.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:53 BST (UK)
Great, hopefully they will include the answers you want. Enjoy your holiday. 
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:53 BST (UK)

Can I ask how long the tracing agency took to track him down, just wondering.    ???

Around 24 hours  :)
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: JCB55 on Tuesday 18 June 24 17:54 BST (UK)
Great, hopefully they will include the answers you want. Enjoy your holiday.
Thank you so much.
What a lovely bunch you are.  ;D
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd (Flt Lt, RAF)
Post by: wilcoxon on Tuesday 18 June 24 18:11 BST (UK)

Can I ask how long the tracing agency took to track him down, just wondering.    ???

Around 24 hours  :)

Fast work.  Hope you get the information you want from the family.