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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 13:06 BST (UK)

Title: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 13:06 BST (UK)
Hi, posting for a friend. Looking for any info on a Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd to John Henry Phillips & Lillian Eva Edwards. Arthur had a brother called Berec Phillips. Cannot find him on the 1939 census, not at home with his parents. He joined the RAF ? and was a Squadron Leader and stationed in Driffield 1954/55. Cannot find a death for him or a marriage. Any help would be grateful as my friend has just discovered  that Arthur is his father.
Thankyou.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 15:36 BST (UK)
Nothing other than a birth for Arthur at the moment sorry, but his mother was Lilian (one ‘l’) and brother was Beric not Berec (1916- edited thanks to softly softly- to 1984). Married Ella Knight. Other siblings Nancy 1914-1987, married Leonard Morley, Margaret (Peggy) 1921-2006, married William CH Lloyd.

Father John Henry born 5 Dec 1886 in Cardiff, died in St Germans, Cornwall on 10 Feb 1978.

Mother Lilian born 26 Sep 1888 in Chester, died 1968 in West Cheshire. corrected to Oct-Dec 1964 in Cornwall (St Germans)
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: QueenoftheWest on Monday 10 June 24 15:40 BST (UK)
I would suggest ordering a copy of Arthur's birth certificate in order to ascertain his exact birth date, which will be useful going forward to search both on the 1939 register (if present) and to compare against entries on the death registration index.

A digital image of a certificate is only £3 through the GRO.

Queenie  :)
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 15:45 BST (UK)
Thankyou, he has the information given. No death can be found either.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 15:53 BST (UK)
The siblings all appear to have moved away so given his name it is likely to be difficult. His exact date of birth from his birth certificate might help as it’s included (if known) in deaths in England and Wales from the late 1960s.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 16:32 BST (UK)
Beric for the records was born 1916.

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 16:34 BST (UK)
Beric for the records was born 1916.

SS

Gosh yes, thanks for spotting that.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 16:43 BST (UK)
Arthur's dob 8th March 1923.

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 16:45 BST (UK)
Where did you find that?
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 16:47 BST (UK)
I knew you would ask, said good bye to tomorrows coffee.

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 16:50 BST (UK)
I knew you would ask, said good bye to tomorrows coffee.

SS

ah! I have done that a few times recently with annoying puzzles 😀

Sadly doesn’t seem to produce a death though

Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 16:54 BST (UK)
Not pre 2007, but these 2 fit.

PHILLIPS, ARTHUR       1923 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q3/2014 in VALE OF GLAMORGAN  (891-1A)  Entry Number 510900161

PHILLIPS, ARTHUR       1923 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q3/2018 in DERBYSHIRE  (398-1G)  Entry


SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 17:02 BST (UK)
Softly softly, where on earth did you find that from, thankyou.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 17:05 BST (UK)
He supposedly died in Ryde isle of wight
but we can't find anything that fits. After leaving the RAF he was piloting the Isle of Wight ferries and decided to live there as the story goes.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 17:12 BST (UK)
Birth date can't be right as he is in the June qtr so it can't be March 8th.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 17:16 BST (UK)
Birth date can't be right as he is in the June qtr so it can't be March 8th.
6 weeks to register birth so any time from mid Feb could be April to June
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 17:18 BST (UK)
Sister Nancy married in the Isle of Wight so there’s a link there, though she was in Plymouth by 1939
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 17:46 BST (UK)
Birth date is correct as I downloaded the official gro registration

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Monday 10 June 24 17:58 BST (UK)
Thankyou so much, he has sent for the certificate
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: JCB55 on Monday 10 June 24 18:11 BST (UK)
Hi, posting for a friend. Looking for any info on a Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd to John Henry Phillips & Lillian Eva Edwards.
With huge thanks to Moira, I am that friend!
Thanks all, I've ordered the birth cert, next will be the search for the death cert, following which I'll go for the military service, as that will hold the crucial information I'm looking for.
I am in touch with the daughter of a first cousin (by DNA) who has researched much of Beric Phillips' tree, but Arthur was, until now, a closed branch of the tree.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: heddwch on Monday 10 June 24 18:37 BST (UK)
GRO

Name:   Mother's Maiden Surname:
   PHILLIPS, ARTHUR       EDWARDS 
GRO Reference: 1923  J Quarter in PONTYPRIDD  Volume 11A  Page 1354

Heddwch
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Monday 10 June 24 18:43 BST (UK)
That’s the image I downloaded

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: heddwch on Monday 10 June 24 18:49 BST (UK)
 

Arthur
Phillips
1923
23 Blaenllechau Road, Ferndale
Rhondda U.D.
Glamorganshire
Wales

1939  REGISTER

????????

Heddwch
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Monday 10 June 24 20:21 BST (UK)
Can’t find Arthur in 1939 by date of birth. Could be he is not known to have died, but strange not to be with his parents as he was only 16.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 10 June 24 22:13 BST (UK)


Arthur
Phillips
1923
23 Blaenllechau Road, Ferndale
Rhondda U.D.
Glamorganshire
Wales

1939  REGISTER

????????

Heddwch

Still redacted on Ancestry?
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 06:27 BST (UK)
Yes I found this on findmypast but don't have membership to open it but couldn't  find it in Ancestry, thankyou.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 06:39 BST (UK)
The one in Blaenllechau Rd has a 2 feb 1923 date of birth. With George and Jane Moss and others
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 06:42 BST (UK)
So that's not him then
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 06:44 BST (UK)
Well there are plenty on the register with a wrong date of birth but as relationships aren’t shown it’s hard to be certain. But as he’s not with his parents, who knows.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 11 June 24 09:00 BST (UK)

Looking for any info on a Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd to John Henry Phillips & Lillian Eva Edwards.

Cannot find him on the 1939 census, not at home with his parents


Sorry can’t help with 1939 Register  ???

Glamorganshire, Wales, Electoral Registers, 1832-1978 Arthur listed with his parents address 2 James Street year 1952, same address for years 1953/54/55/56 (no John & Lilian) other surname listed same address JONES  and  for Years 1957 - 1966 (no John & Lilian) other surname at same address DAVIES

There is an S in front of his name indicating Service Personnel



Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 09:03 BST (UK)
Thankyou
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 09:51 BST (UK)
Arthur's father John Henry Phillips (died 10 Feb 1978 in St Germans Cornwall) left a will, copy available from the probate site. Might name the children....
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 10:01 BST (UK)
Yes we have the will but it doesn't name the children but we already have those names. It's Arthur that's the mystery.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 10:04 BST (UK)
it might have given an address if anything left to him, or if he was the administrator.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 11 June 24 15:16 BST (UK)
He joined the RAF ? and was a Squadron Leader and stationed in Driffield 1954/55.

You may already have the following........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Driffield
Under heading Units : The following units were here at some point:
No. 8 Flying Training School RAF (June 1954 – August 1955

some info. about No. 8 FTS
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._8_Flying_Training_School_RAF

The link below gives some reasons as to why a person may not be on the 1939 Register
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/1939-register/


PHILLIPS, ARTHUR       1923 
GRO Reference:  DOR  Q3/2014 in VALE OF GLAMORGAN  (891-1A)  Entry Number 510900161


A possible index entry only for above from England and Wales, Death Index, 1989-2022 gives death date 22 Sep 2014 residence Barry, Glamorgan   
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:13 BST (UK)
I have found a few records for another Arthur Phillips, born around 1923 in Barry, so that may be him
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:15 BST (UK)
Deirdre784, Do they show living with Arthur a Kathleen?

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:22 BST (UK)
He had different parents
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:28 BST (UK)
moiramount, have you already followed and discounted the marriage of Arthur Phillips to Kathleen Caroline Mary Grieshaber nee' Collins in 1990.

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:39 BST (UK)
I have just looked on my friends chart on Ancestry  and he has Arthur living with a Mary Phillips in Askern Doncaster  in 1955, don't  know if this is right.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 16:45 BST (UK)
There is a marriage in 1946 but he is Arthur E Phillips to a Mary Emmerson in Don Valley so don't think it's him
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:30 BST (UK)
moiramount, have you already followed and discounted the marriage of Arthur Phillips in 1990.

For info.

There is a public tree on Ancestry but no details of the 1990 marriage to indicate his father's name. Her birth date 1937/death date 2015 given and her parents are named although the names of first husband & their children are all marked private.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:39 BST (UK)
There are 4 trees with him in but not sure if some of the info is correct. Parents and siblings are correct.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:46 BST (UK)
Info

SS
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:48 BST (UK)
Deirdre784, Do they show living with Arthur a Kathleen?

SS

Which entry sorry? I only have Arthur in the electoral rolls in Mardy.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:49 BST (UK)
Thanks, he's sent for a digital certificate but it's only going to show what he already knows.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:50 BST (UK)
Deirdre784, Do they show living with Arthur a Kathleen?

SS

Electoral registers for Barry.

SS

Which entry sorry? I only have Arthur in the electoral rolls in Mardy.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:51 BST (UK)
I discounted them but will look again
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:54 BST (UK)
According to my friend he didn't  marry. He was still alive aged 83 when his sister Margaret died and he was living in Hampshire. I found one death for an Arthur Phillips but it said husband Gerald ? Maybe why he never married.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 17:57 BST (UK)
According to my friend he didn't  marry. He was still alive aged 83 when his sister Margaret died and he was living in Hampshire. I found one death for an Arthur Phillips but it said husband Gerald ? Maybe why he never married.

Where did you find that death? So many mistakes with poor transcriptions and typos etc especially in newspapers you would need to see the certificate.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 18:00 BST (UK)
Have you found a newspaper report of Margaret’s death / funeral? Can give amazing help if detailed like some are.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 18:02 BST (UK)
According to my friend he didn't  marry. He was still alive aged 83 when his sister Margaret died

So we are only looking for a death after 2006? That would have been helpful to know, and cuts down options.

It is of course possible that he is still alive.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 18:14 BST (UK)
I think your friend has the wrong death in his tree for Arthur’s mother. She died in Cornwall, like her husband, not in Cheshire where she was born.

And he has a marriage to Frances Stones in early 1937 when he would only have been 13/14.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: moiramount on Tuesday 11 June 24 18:50 BST (UK)
I think I'm going to leave him to it.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: heddwch on Tuesday 11 June 24 20:00 BST (UK)
There is a tree On Ancestry states he died Hampshire  parents born  1886  and 1888

Heddwch
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: Deirdre784 on Tuesday 11 June 24 20:08 BST (UK)
Think they are all copied from one another, though there are 2 options of death of his mother. No source or date anywhere that i’ve seen.
Title: Re: Arthur Phillips b 1923 Pontypridd
Post by: JCB55 on Thursday 13 June 24 16:50 BST (UK)
I think I'm going to leave him to it.

Thank you SO MUCH everyone. The correct way for me to progress from here is to restart the discussion, retaining the established facts and dismissing the assumptions. I shall do just that.