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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: TheCurlyLocks on Thursday 06 June 24 19:02 BST (UK)
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Finally after a few years I've sold the NPE of my grandmother but I was looking for some advice
Probably the standard here but my Nan is against DNA genealogy but is very active in making her own family tree, I decided to start also about 3 years ago and grew a very far branched line based off records but when I got me and my mother to do a DNA test it became quickly apparent my Nan had a different father which I researched for over a year and finally managed to pin down the person who it is and was a man who lived from 1930-2022 who died just before I discovered my connection to him.
The man had been married for 70 years from 1952-2022 and my Nan was born in 1954 and he had 2 kids with his wife born in 1953 and 1970.
All I know about my nans conception was that my great grandma (1926-1983) planning to runaway from my originally thought to be great grandad (1922-1985) because they'd been married for over 7 years and he didn't get her pregnant and she was planning to runaway with another man but suddenly became pregnant in 1953 and stayed with my thought to be great grandad and nobody has questioned whether my Nan was not my thought to be great grandads child as I assumed she was until this DNA test
I'm really nervous about what to do next in this situation as I'm conflicted about contacting either them two children of my great grandad because of the fact my Nan was convinced while their parents were married and I don't want a negative reaction off them like I'm trying to gain anything financial or make them view their father in a negative way
I'm also extremely cautious on my Nan as she's always lived knowing her dad as the 1922-1985 thought to be great grandad and is against DNA testing technology type stuff and i have a really strong relationship with her and don't want to stir the pot and potentially harm the relationship I have with her that I value heavily and I love her dearly and I wonder if it's even worth the stress for both parties as He's already dead.
What's your thoughts???
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I held a couple of similar secrets from a family member, she believed her father was born with my Swedish gt grandfather, she wasn't but I didn't tell her, she was elderly and I didn't feel I ought to upset her, he father was born with my gt grandmother but a completely different partner, it was well documented in the papers that my gt grandmother took a man to court for paternity, have never understood why, no DNA in those days but he paid up, he had a wife, I am the only one who found that out, so, I suppose you could weigh the situation up, do you want to upset your family and your beloved grandmother,?,, another thought is because she is against DNA does she already know?.
LM
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That's a good thought, LM.
I would never dream of telling any family member that I had discovered something like that, especially using the 'banned' DNA. It is what it is. It'll only cause awkwardness at best. There'll be time when Nan is not around anymore.
I'd be devastated if it was me being told something like that.
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Because you don't know whether she is already aware - you have to assume she isn't.
I think you could not only upset her but possibly damage your relationship with her if you told her - even if she admits she already knew. She may be very embarrassed . Some things are best left alone until the person is deceased
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I held a couple of similar secrets from a family member, she believed her father was born with my Swedish gt grandfather, she wasn't but I didn't tell her, she was elderly and I didn't feel I ought to upset her, he father was born with my gt grandmother but a completely different partner, it was well documented in the papers that my gt grandmother took a man to court for paternity, have never understood why, no DNA in those days but he paid up, he had a wife, I am the only one who found that out, so, I suppose you could weigh the situation up, do you want to upset your family and your beloved grandmother,?,, another thought is because she is against DNA does she already know?.
LM
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I mean I highly doubt so, of course could be wrong but she still puts a lot of effort into doing her paper trail family tree its just mainly the DNA technology she isnt interested in. She wasn't very close with her dad that she's always known but he still raised her & provided for her.
My grandmothers sister did a DNA test and she found out she was the result of an NPE and told my grandmother about it and my grandmother reacted quite negatively not liking how she was identifying with the "new father"
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Because you don't know whether she is already aware - you have to assume she isn't.
I think you could not only upset her but possibly damage your relationship with her if you told her - even if she admits she already knew. She may be very embarrassed . Some things are best left alone until the person is deceased
Thank you for the reply, its a tough situation as it feels like lying but also dont wanna risk making things difficult between her as I do know my nan can hold a grudge well
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Think I have the right saying " let sleeping dogs lie" in the nicest possibly way
LM
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Your Nan is younger than me and a female born in 1954 may well be still around for many, many years to come.
As it is the child born in 1953 is in the same longevity situation as your Nan if they are female and potentially many years less if they are male.
Playing a waiting game will not give you the chance of meeting them unless my clandestine means.
If your a Nan knows of your DNA test then she may already suspect.
Try watching the TV show “Stranger in my Family” and listen to the BBC Sounds series “The Gift” and try to introduce the programmes to your Nan to get a discussion going.
In reality your Nan is buying her head in the sand, and she can have all the documents and certificates in the world but if her close family in her Family Tree do not have DNA validation of their relationship from them to her then tree is effectively factually prone to being erroneous.
I have Birth Certificates and Marriage Certificates in my Family that are each a lie, the Registrar has been given factually incorrect information and recorded that information and issued Certificates that are in error.
When one takes a DNA test, the results as they stand DOES NOT LIE, a DNA match where c1700cM is shared is likely to be a 1/2 sibling, a DNA match where c800cM is shared is likely to be a First Cousin.
To give you a specific example, if your known First Cousin, the Cousin who you have known all your life takes a DNA test and the results show that they share Zero DNA with you then they are not your Biological Cousin but simply a Genealogical Cousin where all the Certificates and known family knowledge say that they are your Cousin but the science tells you otherwise.
Educate Nan that DNA is now key to producing an accurate Family Tree.
If she is still adamant, tell her that you have found close relations who you share DNA with and that you plan on contacting them.
Then contact the two DNA Cousins and try to develop a relationship with them whilst you can.
The truth needs to be known.
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Personally, I think people are more important than "facts." Why hurt your grandmother by forcing her to rethink her entire identity late in life? Will it make her happy? Will she feel closer to you? Probably not...
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The truth needs to be known.
This is unconscionably dogmatic.
The truth for OP's grandmother is that her father was the man who reared her, who put the food on the table, who kept the roof over her head, who was there for her for 30 years until he died. That is her truth.
Telling her 71 years later that, well no, he wasn't your father at all may damage her psychologically, and risk their relationship. Does OP want to risk that? For what? What will OP actually gain by telling her grandmother what she has learned? In terms of genealogical information, nothing.
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Is your mother your said nan's daughter?
If she is your nan's daughter, what are her thoughts on the matter?
Me, I wouldn't tell my own Nan if she was alive, if your Nan wanted to DNA test she would. It is up to you and your mum, you know your Nan, we certainly dont .
Interesting some of you wouldn't want know if it was you in nan's position.
Nan has half siblings that she doesn't know about. My parent is in the OPs nan's position ( my parent has a half sibling that they don't know about)
I am in a extremely similar position to your mother, except it is my grandfather who fathered an illegitmate child and not the other way about( my granddad fathered an illegitimate child overseas when he was in he army, an affair) .
I have chosen not to tell my parent that they have a living half sibling. It is an extremely, extremely difficult decision to live with! And anyone who has ever been in the same position will know that.
I have been living with my decision of not informing my parent for just over two years, it is very hard to live with it , its not a easy decision.
That's why I asked you, about your mother's thoughts, as she is closer to the situation than you are, . Your nan's half sibling's are your mum's half uncles/ Aunts.
I am in contact with my half uncle ( they took a DNA test , it was how I intially found out , we both highly matched to eachother ,and it was pretty obvious. We match very high, almost half sibling level.) .
I assume your nan's half siblings haven't taken a test, and don't know about your mother or your Nan? ( as your mother would be highly matching to them, it would be pretty obvious to them that your mother must be their half niece).
I 100% think it's your and your mother's decision, not strangers, and certainly not one's who have never been in this situation.
( I received flak off someone here for making the decision not to tell my parent that they have a living half sibling )
It is YOUR and YOUR MUM'S DNA , it is therefore your and your mum's decision.
For some who think "the truth should be known". It is not your Nan, or your close family they will be hurting ,or not hurting. If we all spoke the truth, when some of the truths can gain no good and just hurt the people that you care deeply about - what a world it would be eh.
Best of luck to whatever you and your mum decide, only you and your mum know what is best in your own family's situation , I know it is not an easy decision either way - It's something I have to live with everyday not telling my parent and spend many sleepless nights over it - to tell my parent, it would extremely hurt them.
Very Kind regards
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I had a similar situation although not involving DNA.
My late mother knew her mother had given her up in the early 1930s when she was a baby and had no further contact with her. There was no father's details on her birth certificate and my mother had no interest in knowing anything about her background.
Over 20 years ago I managed to trace and make contact with a cousin of my mother's and through her found out that my mother had a half-sister who was still alive and who lived within a couple of hours drive of my mother's address.
I kept that information from my mother, although it wasn't easy and I had a certain feeling of guilt about it. It was only 6 years after my mother died that I told my siblings.
I also waited until my mother had died to make contact with the half-sister who welcomed me and was able to fill in some gaps in my family history. My siblings were very surprised that I'd kept this information private for so long. They, however, had very little interest in the whole thing. Everyone is different. It matters to some people and not to others.
I was also able to obtain photos of my grandmother and the likeness between her and my mother was startling. It did cross my mind that she might have wanted to see a photo of her mother but something just made me put this to the back of my mind and try and forget about it. It became easier as the years went on.
There was no way I would have ever told my mother and she had made it clear that she wasn't interested. Had she shown an interest and asked me then, yes, perhaps I may have told her.
It was enough for me to know where I had come from and to have family photos. It would have been of absolutely no benefit to upset my mother by sharing this with her.
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You may also need to factor in the risk that your nan may somehow learn of this from somebody else and not you. Theres a lot less thoughtful people than you out there on DNA platforms.
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
Yes. well put, AnnaBme. Some people on here are treating their family as a name on a piece of paper. Also, I would endure anything not to hurt any one of mine.
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You asked our opinion and you have had various replies, I think you should tread very carefully, not always should the truth be told on these sort of delicate questions, I wish you the best of luck in whatever choice you take
LM
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I agree with Louisa Maud. It is really your decision but not an easy one.
If it was me, I don't think I would tell but would try to be prepared if someone else spilt the beans.
Good luck, Jackie
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
Hear hear. This is the fundamental issue here.
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I really think your Nan has given you her answer already with her negative feelings about DNA. Your relationship is much more important than revelations that are likely to cause emotional harm to your Nan.
In this case I think you need to choose family over names.
Such a tough situation though, my heart goes out to you.
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I think your feelings matter as well, CurleyLocks. I feel sorry for people in these types of situations when they are made to feel so guilty and shamed for wanting to know more about their past. None of us know what is around the corner. Sometimes it might be too late to wait around until someone has died. Don't be guilt tripped by anyone.
If I were in your shoes, I think I would pursue things albeit discreetly as Pfig and Cell did. In my opinion, just because there is an over riding need to find out more this does not mean anyone loves their immediate family any less.
Reading your stories Pfig and Cell, I think you both handled things very well. You had a win-win situation in the sense that you met your own needs in finding things out but you were also sensitive by not sharing information which might be unwelcome.
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
It is not that easy.
Family can be Biological or Genealogical and they are not necessarily the same.
In this case “Nan” knows of the DNA test and of the parentage question that it raises.
Her negative response is not going to “put the Genie back in the bottle”, she knows what is happening and her reaction is unfair on her family.
Educate her.
But
Certainly do not miss out on contacting relatives who share your bloodline, should they pass before Nan the chance of a relationship goes with them.
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I'm not suggesting breaking a confidence, but generally if you've known something for a very long time and that secret is eventually discovered, you have a lot of explaining to do. I think it is better to be open and candid now.
We should never be ashamed of things that our parents did.
Mrs Zaph.
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Why should he or she have a lot of explaining to do, they could say they were protecting their beloved Grandmother, end of story in my opinion, they have to do what they feel is right for everyone , they have to live with it if they spill the beans to soon, but as has already been suggested, grandma might know already and doesn't want to upset others, works both ways.
Good luck with whatever choice you make
LM
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
It is not that easy.
Family can be Biological or Genealogical and they are not necessarily the same.
In this case “Nan” knows of the DNA test and of the parentage question that it raises.
Her negative response is not going to “put the Genie back in the bottle”, she knows what is happening and her reaction is unfair on her family.
Educate her.
But
Certainly do not miss out on contacting relatives who share your bloodline, should they pass before Nan the chance of a relationship goes with them.
Biggles have you ever had experience of this? putting it politely, it is the OPs choice. Whatever they decide to do!
I'll never forget where you came in aggressively to a thread nwhen I found my living parent had had had living half sibling with your " the have right to know."
It is an extremely hard thing to go through!!
what is " educate her " ( as in their nan) sorry this has totally put my back up!
!! Oh wow , how derogative!!! You should educate yourself on living people ,close kin which it affects , and not your own long dead rellies - it's called FEELINGS, LOVE and HURT
There are living people
I am sure the OP knows their family, and thier Nan better than you do.
Signing off as I am damn angry with the bull that biggles is spouting off.
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It looks to me as though you and your grandmother have different ideas about what a family tree is, and what it's for.
If your grandmother believes it is about social relationships, rather than biological - and that would appear to be the case, or she would want a DNA test - then perhaps you will have to accept that the biological truth isn't what she wants, or feels to be important to her research.
It's really exciting to solve a genealogical mystery for yourself (well done!), and of course you want to tell people about it. However, you don't seem to believe that your Nan would welcome the information you have. Is it really necessary for this secret to be shared with her, or indeed with her biological father's family? Who would benefit?
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I sometimes think the object here is to see who can start a fight quickest, a sort of genealogy version of Mornington Crescent, if you remember that far back!
Mrs Zaph
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I don't have to remember far back. Latest edition of ISIHAC was last Monday :)
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Personally I think you should leave it be unless she ever directly asks about it. There are two things I’ve found which kept from living relatives - both because they’re things that I believe would unsettle them. My thought is that if they ever ask and genuinely want to know, I will share it, but otherwise I’m going to leave it be.
However I’m a big believer in people having the right to know their ancestry, and certainly would be making contact with cousins and building the tree myself though!
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Is your mother your said nan's daughter?
If she is your nan's daughter, what are her thoughts on the matter?
Me, I wouldn't tell my own Nan if she was alive, if your Nan wanted to DNA test she would. It is up to you and your mum, you know your Nan, we certainly dont .
Interesting some of you wouldn't want know if it was you in nan's position.
Nan has half siblings that she doesn't know about. My parent is in the OPs nan's position ( my parent has a half sibling that they don't know about)
I am in a extremely similar position to your mother, except it is my grandfather who fathered an illegitmate child and not the other way about( my granddad fathered an illegitimate child overseas when he was in he army, an affair) .
I have chosen not to tell my parent that they have a living half sibling. It is an extremely, extremely difficult decision to live with! And anyone who has ever been in the same position will know that.
I have been living with my decision of not informing my parent for just over two years, it is very hard to live with it , its not a easy decision.
That's why I asked you, about your mother's thoughts, as she is closer to the situation than you are, . Your nan's half sibling's are your mum's half uncles/ Aunts.
I am in contact with my half uncle ( they took a DNA test , it was how I intially found out , we both highly matched to eachother ,and it was pretty obvious. We match very high, almost half sibling level.) .
I assume your nan's half siblings haven't taken a test, and don't know about your mother or your Nan? ( as your mother would be highly matching to them, it would be pretty obvious to them that your mother must be their half niece).
I 100% think it's your and your mother's decision, not strangers, and certainly not one's who have never been in this situation.
( I received flak off someone here for making the decision not to tell my parent that they have a living half sibling )
It is YOUR and YOUR MUM'S DNA , it is therefore your and your mum's decision.
For some who think "the truth should be known". It is not your Nan, or your close family they will be hurting ,or not hurting. If we all spoke the truth, when some of the truths can gain no good and just hurt the people that you care deeply about - what a world it would be eh.
Best of luck to whatever you and your mum decide, only you and your mum know what is best in your own family's situation , I know it is not an easy decision either way - It's something I have to live with everyday not telling my parent and spend many sleepless nights over it - to tell my parent, it would extremely hurt them.
Very Kind regards
My mum couldn't care less about genealogy or her past to be honest, I paid for her DNA test out of my income. I've told her all about it and she just laughed it off practically in one ear and out of the next. But she did exclaim me to not tell my nan about it and she lives with it more than fine, she wasn't close with her grandad at all so it makes sense I suppose
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I really think your Nan has given you her answer already with her negative feelings about DNA. Your relationship is much more important than revelations that are likely to cause emotional harm to your Nan.
In this case I think you need to choose family over names.
Such a tough situation though, my heart goes out to you.
Thank you so much for the kind reply I do appreciate it
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
It is not that easy.
Family can be Biological or Genealogical and they are not necessarily the same.
In this case “Nan” knows of the DNA test and of the parentage question that it raises.
Her negative response is not going to “put the Genie back in the bottle”, she knows what is happening and her reaction is unfair on her family.
Educate her.
But
Certainly do not miss out on contacting relatives who share your bloodline, should they pass before Nan the chance of a relationship goes with them.
Biggles have you ever had experience of this? putting it politely, it is the OPs choice. Whatever they decide to do!
I'll never forget where you came in aggressively to a thread nwhen I found my living parent had had had living half sibling with your " the have right to know."
It is an extremely hard thing to go through!!
what is " educate her " ( as in their nan) sorry this has totally put my back up!
!! Oh wow , how derogative!!! You should educate yourself on living people ,close kin which it affects , and not your own long dead rellies - it's called FEELINGS, LOVE and HURT
There are living people
I am sure the OP knows their family, and thier Nan better than you do.
Signing off as I am damn angry with the bull that biggles is spouting off.
Thank you very much for the reply, to the comment above my nan is educated on genealogy and actively watches shows where the topic of illegitimate parentage are covered, She had no issue with me and my mum doing the DNA test she just seems quite reserved against it herself.
There is no clear answer as everyone will deal with it differently but again its the mixture of guilt of keeping secrets from her but I also dont want to stress her in a more delicate era of life
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I think your feelings matter as well, CurleyLocks. I feel sorry for people in these types of situations when they are made to feel so guilty and shamed for wanting to know more about their past. None of us know what is around the corner. Sometimes it might be too late to wait around until someone has died. Don't be guilt tripped by anyone.
If I were in your shoes, I think I would pursue things albeit discreetly as Pfig and Cell did. In my opinion, just because there is an over riding need to find out more this does not mean anyone loves their immediate family any less.
Reading your stories Pfig and Cell, I think you both handled things very well. You had a win-win situation in the sense that you met your own needs in finding things out but you were also sensitive by not sharing information which might be unwelcome.
Thank you very much, I'm happy I went through the journey and definitely learnt skills on genealogy as a whole. Had to rule out multiple people and it is truly a relief to put a name to what became a question mark 2 years ago
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Why should he or she have a lot of explaining to do, they could say they were protecting their beloved Grandmother, end of story in my opinion, they have to do what they feel is right for everyone , they have to live with it if they spill the beans to soon, but as has already been suggested, grandma might know already and doesn't want to upset others, works both ways.
Good luck with whatever choice you make
LM
I appreciate your active input on the thread
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Please don't get stressed about it, one day a family might say " do you know grandma was illegitimate" you could confess and say you kept it to yourself so as "not to embarrass grandma" you never know knowing you have done DNA tests she might confide in you but don't get unduly stressed about it.
Happy hunting
LM
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Try not to feel guilty about all this. Personally, I think there is no need to. You and your Nan both have the right to have different views. The way I see it is you are not keeping secrets from her, you are just being sensitive about her feelings. It comes across that you do love and respect your Nan.
Also well done, on getting a name for your question mark. I wish I could be so lucky finding out the identity of my deceased illegitimate Grandmother's Father. I have two possible matches who might hold the key but unfortunately neither will reply.
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In "FAMILY TREE" which is more important to you "FAMILY" or "TREE"?
It is not that easy.
Family can be Biological or Genealogical and they are not necessarily the same.
In this case “Nan” knows of the DNA test and of the parentage question that it raises.
Her negative response is not going to “put the Genie back in the bottle”, she knows what is happening and her reaction is unfair on her family.
Educate her.
But
Certainly do not miss out on contacting relatives who share your bloodline, should they pass before Nan the chance of a relationship goes with them.
Biggles have you ever had experience of this? putting it politely, it is the OPs choice. Whatever they decide to do!
I'll never forget where you came in aggressively to a thread nwhen I found my living parent had had had living half sibling with your " the have right to know."
It is an extremely hard thing to go through!!
what is " educate her " ( as in their nan) sorry this has totally put my back up!
!! Oh wow , how derogative!!! You should educate yourself on living people ,close kin which it affects , and not your own long dead rellies - it's called FEELINGS, LOVE and HURT
There are living people
I am sure the OP knows their family, and thier Nan better than you do.
Signing off as I am damn angry with the bull that biggles is spouting off.
Yes I have direct experience it, of a DNA test that throws ones whole life into uncertainty.
You want feelings I’ll give you feelings, of hurt, of uncertainty, of doubt of being lied to, of mistrust, these I live with every day.
I have a 1/2 Brother that I never knew existed until recently.
So it is far from Bull.
Just watch the TV programme Stranger In My Family, where person in the TV programme was lied to by his Mother, his life is due to a casual holiday fling.
If family are not interested in their own past then that is entirely up to them and their feelings should count for very little for the Op if it means missing out on developing relationships with people who are in reality close family.