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General => Ancestral Family Tree DNA Testing => Topic started by: larkspur on Tuesday 04 June 24 15:53 BST (UK)
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My great grandfather was illegitimate. I have been trying to narrow down a father via DNA. I am certain of his grandparents as I have many DNA matches that go back to them. I am sure of this as its the only branch of my family that hails from Staffordshire. But they had 6 sons. How do I narrow this down , or is that as far as I can go? Any help would be much appreciated.
My Great Grandfather- William Thomas Spicer B 1875 Lower Penn, Staffs
Great great grandmother- Sarah Spicer b 1854 Lower Penn, Staffs.
3x Great grandfather- William Blakemore b 1809 Stretton, Staffs
3x Great grandmother-Ann Roberts b 1806 Bishops Wood, Staffs
Their 6 sons George b 1835, William b 1837, Charles 1842, Joseph 1847. Henry 1850 and John 1851.
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But they had 6 sons.
Do you know what all 6 were up to around the time of his birth ie where they were living and with whom?
I would start with the youngest as most likely, see if you can rule him out and work up!
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Thankyou. I have started to check them out. A couple were already married but that is not always a reason to rule them out.!
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My Great Grandfather- William Thomas Spicer B 1875 Lower Penn, Staffs
Who was his mother, did she have any William or Thomas names in her family such as father or brothers he might be named after? Appreciate they are common names.
Yes quite, married or not can't rule 'em out!
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My Great Grandfather- William Thomas Spicer B 1875 Lower Penn, Staffs
Who was his mother
His baptism 7 Feb 1875 mother Sarah Spicer, abode Lower Penn (FreeReg)
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I see it now thank you and she married in 1877 William Elcock.
Where is young William in 1881 as he doesn't seem to be with them?
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larkspur - do you have WTS' 1875 birth cert? Just curious what Sarah's address was. It might offer a clue as to the brothers in question.
1881 census - WTS is with his grandparents at Seisdon, Trysull, Wolverhampton.
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Is this Sarah's baptism and with her parents on 1861/1871c?
Sarah Spicer
Baptism 2 Apr 1854 Penn, St Bartholomew, Staffordshire
Religion Anglican
Father Thomas Mother Mary
1871
Piece 2929
Folio 56
Page number 4
Thomas Spicer 56 Head
Mary Spicer 51 Wife
Robert Spicer 30 Son
Sarah Spicer 17 Daughter Penn
1861
Piece 1984
Folio 166
Page number 8
Thomas Spicer 46 Head
Mary Spicer 41 Wife
Sarah Spicer 7 Daughter
SPICER, SARAH mmn MORRIS
GRO Reference: 1854 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 365
Thomas Spicer f/a father Robert
Residence Place Wolverhampton
Marriage 7 Jun 1840 Wolverhampton, St Peter, Staffordshire
Spouse Mary Morris f/a father John
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I think you will be hardpushed to get a conclusive answer from standard DNA methods because any matches you do get are likely to be 4C, 4C1R or 3C1R. Matches do not always come through at that level, so other descendants from the 6 brothers will not appear as matches
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Build a standalone tree including all the six and their parents, GP’s, GGP’s etc and bring each line from the six as far forward as you can.
ID the oldest ones on each line and attempt to contact them with a view of them taking a DNA test.
Ideally you want to have a DNA test taken buy two or three who are direct descendants of different ones of the six.
If your line is a direct male to male to male then a yDNA test could then help.
If you have taken an Ancestry DNA test then look through your matches who have an appropriate cM value. A 1/2 3C would be the relationship if you are of the same generation as the match so that should be about 50cM shared.
There are other tools and processes you can use but the above is a way to start
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A key thing in this type of scenario is to build the tree as wide and deep as possible, bring it towards the present day and have as many descendants as possible test. Knowing how much dna everyone shares with everyone else (not just what they share with you), may point to half relationships in some cases which were previously unknown. The problem however is that the relationships are quite distant so not everyone may appear as a match and the shared dna figures of matches could apply to full or half relationships in some cases with no way to be sure which is correct.
I've had a result come back for a paper trail full 1c but the cM figure is too far low, at best we are h1c. When taking into account other matches in that part of my tree it's apparent the children registered to my grandparents are not all full siblings to each other and it's my line that is the 'half'. Were it not for that one test I would be none the wiser as the others are at least one and sometimes two generations further along so the shared cM amounts are less conclusive. I also have some matches between 200-280cM that are unique to me which I can now be more confident are in the 'missing' part of my tree.
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Many thanks for all of the information, and for the time you have spent. I have a very good tree of Sarah Spicer and her family including census info and B M D certificates. My great grandfather William Thomas Spicer It is the Blakemore connection I was trying to untangle.
1881 "Young William" is with his grandparents in Trysull.
I will continue to build the Blakemore boys lines and see where it gets me.
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larkspur - do you have WTS' 1875 birth cert? Just curious what Sarah's address was. It might offer a clue as to the brothers in question.
Yes I have his birth certificate, no father named. His mother was living in Lower Penn, nothing further in the address and she registered the birth. Sarah's father was called Thomas, there is no William in the family, not a name that seems to have been used. So was the William Blakemore the father??