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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Rufous Treecreeper on Friday 31 May 24 05:08 BST (UK)
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Jane Johnston married (Edinburgh 1839) to John Murray and they had their first child, (John born about 1841) in Scotland before coming to Victoria, Australia, (arrived Jan 1842).
I can only find the birth record for their last (Ellen/Helen 1860) in Victoria. There were other children and I purchased Jane's death registration (1875) to see all their names. (I also got John's but the informant didn't know any family information.)
So I see, John 34 years, Jessie deceased, Marion 27 years, ? 23 years, Jane deceased, James 21 years, Daniel 19 years and Ellen 17 years.
I can't make out the forth name down, which I believe is a male because when daughter Jane died (also in 1875) the newspaper death notice said "third daughter of John Murray".
Can anyone read the name?
Thank you,
Marlene
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The fourth name looks like Jessie to me :-\
Kay
Added - Did the third daughter reference exclude the daughter who has already died??
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Hi.
There are 2 named James.
First deceased and second aged 21 years.
I do not see a Jane.
Sue
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Is this the death of Jessie, the eldest daughter deceased?
Was John working at the railways?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/204981275
Sue
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Death notices for Jessie Smith nee Murray, Jane Braddy nee Murray and Jane Murray nee Johnston.
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The fourth name looks like Jessie to me :-\
Kay
Added - Did the third daughter reference exclude the daughter who has already died??
Thanks, Kay
I have to admit it does look Jessie but I don't think it can be... ???
The death notices make me think they didn't exclude the daughter who died.
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Could it be Josie?
djm297
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If you get the Victorian birth certificate for Ellen/Helen it should list previous issue. That was how I found that my grandfather was number 11 and his older siblings. I knew very little about them and mum only remembered a couple of names. Many had died before she was born.
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I make the names to be
John 34 years
Jessie deceased
Marion 27 years
Susie/Josie? 23 years
James deceased
James 20 years
Daniel 19
Ellen 17 years
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If you get the Victorian birth certificate for Ellen/Helen it should list previous issue. That was how I found that my grandfather was number 11 and his older siblings. I knew very little about them and mum only remembered a couple of names. Many had died before she was born.
I will do this, thank you!
I really want it to be William due to DNA matches. There is a William Murray who, according to online trees, was born at Kangaroo Flat in 1852. This is the same area, i.e. Bendigo, that John and Jane Murray lived and died in. I have DNA matches to William descendants as well as to children of John and Jane.
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The name looks like Jessie and in those days it was quite common to 'recycle' a name if the first child with that name had died.
I came across this years ago when doing research for my late partner's family where one little girl Margaret had died, and several years later another daughter got the name Margaret.
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If you get the Victorian birth certificate for Ellen/Helen it should list previous issue.
Thank you Nanna52 :D I got the certificate and there he is! William :D
John 21, Jessie 18, Marion 15, William 11, Jane 9, James 6, Daniel 3
So could the name in Jane's death registration be Willie??? or even Bill?
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So pleased you got the certificate and it helped to solve your problem Rufous. I have found the Victorian certificates to be most informative over the years. Reading them can be the challenge :o :o
Added: I wonder if William was his second name and he went by that. My grandfather was named James Arthur, after a deceased older brother James Thomas. He always went by Arthur.
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Hi.
Can you tell us please,
Who was the informant on both the death of Jane and the birth of Ellen?
Mix ups and confusion do occur on both types of certificate.
I once saw an informant in his teens who was a relation of the newborn, possibly a cousin of the new child.
There was no requirement that a parent attend, nor the infant.
When he got to town to register the child's birth he was not prepared for all the questions and got the parents right and not much else.!
Sue
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Hi.
Can you tell us please,
Who was the informant on both the death of Jane and the birth of Ellen?
Hi Sue
The informant in both cases was John Murray.
Birth reg; ‘John Murray father Keilor Plains’
Death reg; ‘John Murray husband Kangaroo Flat’
Rufous