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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: lasswade on Friday 31 May 24 02:23 BST (UK)
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Were female convicts able to bring their children to NSW when transported? (1826)
Thanks...
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Yes, if they were still babies, or at least young enough to still need a mother.
Once the child was old enough, they were usually sent to an orphan school.
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Convicts could apply to have family members join them later in the colony.
Do you have a person of interest?
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Thanks for the answers,
The children in question were 10, 9, and 7 years old.
The mother was Sarah Crunkhorn, the child in particular was William Smith, born 1829 in London. Someone else's family tree shows him travelling on the Elizabeth, June 1836, with his sisters and mother.
I'm battling with aus. records. william did make a life in aust., but after having a daughter in London in 1859.
Thanks for reading,
lasswade
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Just an illustration of what Neale and Wivenhoe are saying:
One of my convict ancestors was sent out in 1791/92 with his wife and 2 children born in 1788 and 1790, while an older son then aged 12 made his own way out in 1808/09 when he was 29. (Three others, born 1780, 1782 and 1786, had apparently died in England as infants.)
Peter
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Thanks Peter... Good example.
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I can see a Sarah CLACKHORNE arrived on the Elizabeth, given a ticket of leave in 1841. Is this who you mean?
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12869748
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Sarah CLACKHORN, aged 34, protestant, widow arrived with 1 male and 2 female children ("youngest 7 years old"). Native place - Northamptonshire, cook. Tried London Central Criminal Court 4 April 1836 for house breaking. (On the List of Female Convicts on the Elizabeth (5), arrived 12 Oct 1836.)
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So, the three children did come with her. Good info, thanks all.
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In case you are interested, the Convict Indent has this description of Sarah:
She could read and write; a prior conviction with 9 month sentence; 5'1 1/2"; fair and a little pockpitted; brown eyes and hair; two middle front upper teeth apart, scar inside left wrist.
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So interesting to have a word picture of her
Is. there a way to follow what happened to the children, especially William Smith (probably Batchelor then, didn't use Smith until later). He seems to have gone back to UK, as my g.g. ,his daughter, was born 1859 in London. He was the Dad .
Sarah married Smith in Australia, made a new life and died here aged 70. Her son, William Smith settled in Australia also. Still trying to work out how he became a father in London in between times.
Thanks for all the replies.
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I am a little confused (not unusual!) and haven't tried to follow her in England yet, however, if she was tried as CLACKHORN as a widow, was this her married name?
Sarah CLACKHORN (arr Elizabeth) - permission to marry Joseph MALTON/MILTON 17 July 1838.
Sarah CLACKHORN (arr Elizabeth) was given permission to marry Thomas SMITH 5 Jan 1839. I assume it's this marriage - Thomas SMITH and Sarah BATCHELOR (427/1839 V1839427 23B) 1839 at Gundaroo; Gunning; Yass.
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Yes, the second one was correct, her husband Batchelor died in UK 1839 and she married Thos. Smith in Australia. Her son William, my ancestor, took the name Smith. It is William Smith I am trying to follow. What records (Aust) can I investigate to assess his movements, he obviously returned to UK to become the father of my g.g. Lily Smith, before marrying in Australia and having a family Thanks for the help.
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Just a query, devil’s advocate if you like, could Lily Smith have been conceived in Australia and just her mother went to England? ???
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Hello, and thanks for being devil's advocate. I have been trying to sort out William and Lily for many years.
I never would have thought of your idea. Of course, it's possible, in fact, it's likely. It was as if they did not exist, when trawling through UK records. Lily was married in Marylebone, so I didn't think past that.
I am so pleased ,I found this site, the help has been wonderful, and I thank you very much
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You might be interested to read the medical journal for the convict ship "Elizabeth" in 1836.
I don't think there is any direct reference to your Sarah.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4106573
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Can you give us a bit more detail about Lily - I can't see a birth in London for a Lily SMITH (or BATCHELOR) in 1859. What year did she marry, what occupation does it have for her father William etc? Can you see her any census? It is such a common name (those names, father and daughter both occur in my family tree :) ), and whilst not impossible, it was reasonably unusual to return to England and back again to Australia.
NSW BDM records are free to search (index only):
https://familyhistory.bdm.nsw.gov.au
trove is another great free resource for newspaper mentions:
https://trove.nla.gov.au
There is also the NSW State Archives:
https://mhnsw.au/collections/state-archives-collection/
But again, tricky with such a common name.
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Also, should have added yesterday, the marriage permission of Sarah CLACKHORN and Joseph MALTON/ MILTON was disallowed.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2230380
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Interesting notice in 1842:
"IF SARAH ANN BATCHELOR, who arrived in the colony per ship Elizabeth, (5) 1836, and was transferred to Captain Button, from the Orphan School, and went to the Cassilis district, will address a line to her mother, she will hear of something to her advantage. Address Sarah Smith, at J. J. Howell's, Esq., Arkstone Forest, Burrows, Yass."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12875438 (last column, near the top)
Possibly this entry in the Archives:
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX1912660
And one for William BATCHELOR:
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2876057
Is this the other child - Mary BATCHELOR?:
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX2876055
Modified to add:
"J J HOWELL" was John James HOWELL, a property owner at Arkstone Forest. He died in 1847.
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In 1935 the parish register was discovered which included the marriage for Sarah and Thomas:
"17th Feb. 1839, Thomas Smith and Sarah Batchelor, alias Cunkhow, both of Arkstone, at Arkstone."
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/249538168
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At reply #7 -
"On the List of Female Convicts on the Elizabeth (5), arrived 12 Oct 1836."
where does this reference live?. Looks interesting. "
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At reply #7 -
"On the List of Female Convicts on the Elizabeth (5), arrived 12 Oct 1836."
where does this reference live?. Looks interesting. "
It comes from the convict Indent, but gives no more detail about the children.
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At reply #7 -
"On the List of Female Convicts on the Elizabeth (5), arrived 12 Oct 1836."
where does this reference live?. Looks interesting. "
It's on Ancestry in the "Annotated Printed Indentures" which is part of "New South Wales, Australia, Convict Indents, 1788-1842".
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The three children were admitted to the workhouse at St Giles on 8 Sep 1832, Sarah, 7, Mary, 5 and William, 3˝ under the surname CRINKHORN/CRUNKHORN. I doubt that Sarah was married to the father of the children. I can see possible baptisms at St Sepulchre for Sarah and Mary but nothing for William. The children were discharged to their mother at Newgate prison on 9 Jun 1836.
It does seem unlikely that William would have returned to England, why do you think they are the same person?
Debra :)
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It does seem unlikely that William would have returned to England, why do you think they are the same person?
I wonder if Lasswade has been looking at trees on Ancestry. The ones containing the most “information” are also full of incredible and glaringly obvious errors.
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Thank you all, esp. for the internet resources, yet to check them out.
Yes, I have looked at family trees on Ancestry, seemed like a good resource. Yes, Neale1961, now I am not sure if the William I have been tracing is actually the one who wss my gg. grandfather. If it turns out that way, I am sorry you have all been to so much trouble over it.
I have spent a lot of time looking for William and his daughter Lily. with nothing definite forthcoming, it seemed that if either of them could not be found, then maybe they had moved out of UK. Then it made sense that either they arranged an expensive and disruptive voyage themselves, or that they may have been transported here (to Aus).
Will follow up all your idess, thanks, lasswade.