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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Siely on Thursday 30 May 24 18:29 BST (UK)

Title: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Thursday 30 May 24 18:29 BST (UK)
Can I ask about cousins getting married ? When did it stop being okay ?
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: bearkat on Thursday 30 May 24 18:34 BST (UK)
It is still legal for cousins to marry in the UK.

It may not be the best idea genetically though.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: jim1 on Thursday 30 May 24 18:35 BST (UK)
It hasn't stopped being ok.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: CaroleW on Thursday 30 May 24 18:37 BST (UK)
According to this it's ok

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N512-GXN
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Thursday 30 May 24 18:44 BST (UK)
Thank you all.  I was told (wrongly judging by your answers) that there were attempts to ban it because of inherited poor health and anatomical problems, obviously this was wrong.

In the US (according to Wikipedia - Cousin Marriage) some states allow it and some don't.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: GrahamSimons on Thursday 30 May 24 22:36 BST (UK)
There have been attempts, with mixed results, to discourage it particularly in communities which are small or where there is such a tradition.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Friday 31 May 24 10:31 BST (UK)
My grandfather told me that his grandfather may have married a cousin and he said there was a stigma about it. I'm trying to research this.

He was adamant that there is  a still a social stigma about it that was used by people with superior attitudes.

Although marrying cousins is legal (see earlier contributions)  it doesn't necessarily stop the social stigma

e.g. The working canal barge community or "bargees" with a history of intermarriages between the same group of families for decades.

After the industrial revolution and its advances in technology the mobility and opportunity of working people increased but they often found themselves in city "slum" areas with little social contact outside of it.

I raised the subject for two reasons because of the reality of social stigma and the modern DNA and health movement.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: AntonyMMM on Friday 31 May 24 10:34 BST (UK)
there is  a still a social stigma about it that was used by people with superior attitudes.

I wonder if anyone ever said that about Queen Victoria marrying her 1st cousin, Albert !
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: RW1 on Friday 31 May 24 10:40 BST (UK)
I have several instances of siblings marrying siblings, which is fine genetically for their children.

But would those cousins be allowed to marry? They share only four grandparents (like brother snd sister).
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Friday 31 May 24 10:44 BST (UK)
To AntonyMMM

There was a big political row about these issues between the social classes. The higher classes called it "breeding" (still do call it that I wonder ?).

Like many family history amateurs I have made some progress with names, dates, locations, occupations and now want to research the social history side of their tree.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 31 May 24 11:35 BST (UK)
Didn't Einstein marry his cousin?
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Friday 31 May 24 12:15 BST (UK)
To KGarrad

I didn't know that Einstein's second wife Elsa was his cousin

https://www.natgeotv.com/za/special/einsteins-valentines-elsa-einstein
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Friday 31 May 24 12:22 BST (UK)
Endogamy

According to Oxford online dictionary this is the correct anthropological term for intermarriage in a closed community.

Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: KGarrad on Friday 31 May 24 13:44 BST (UK)
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cousin_marriage

Only a problem in certain US States, and parts of East Asia (China, Korea, Taiwan, Vietnam, Philipines).
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: california dreamin on Friday 31 May 24 15:09 BST (UK)
Thank you all.  I was told (wrongly judging by your answers) that there were attempts to ban it because of inherited poor health and anatomical problems, obviously this was wrong.

In the US (according to Wikipedia - Cousin Marriage) some states allow it and some don't.

I guess you haven't heard about the Whitakers! Some only grunt because they can't speak.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11934633/The-19-states-marry-cousin-despite-inbreeding-risks.html

CD
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: carol8353 on Friday 31 May 24 15:23 BST (UK)
My grandparents were 1st cousins, married in 1923.

We're all normal,in fact some of us have even attended university!
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Glen in Tinsel Kni on Saturday 01 June 24 03:20 BST (UK)
Marriages between the assorted Royal families of Europe is well documented leading to instances where related individuals would marry (known as consanguineous marriages).
The Habsburg family took things to the extreme with consecutive generations of marriages between cousins from within their own family lines. The cumulative effect of such a long standing series of marriages decreases the gene pool and the last of the Spanish line, Charles II, is said to have had a genome comparable to that of a child born to a brother and sister.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 04 June 24 23:37 BST (UK)
Such marriages are contrary to canon law.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: GrahamSimons on Wednesday 05 June 24 08:13 BST (UK)
Such marriages are contrary to canon law.
True of the Catholic Church but a Dispensation can be granted. Other denominations tend to be more permissive.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Wednesday 05 June 24 11:53 BST (UK)
Yes Canon Law is a very interesting point indeed !

The Church of England (CofE) has fully recognised the sainthood of Cardinal John Henry Newman and the Oxford Movement he founded.

Does this mean that the CofE is more Catholic than it was before St. John Henry Newman ?

What does this mean for the British monarchy which still declares itself to be Protestant and did so in the recent coronation of King Charles III ?
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: coombs on Wednesday 05 June 24 12:42 BST (UK)
I have found a few instances of cousinship marriages in the Saffron Walden areas of Essex, as some of mine married their first cousins.
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: arthurk on Wednesday 05 June 24 13:43 BST (UK)
The Church of England (CofE) has fully recognised the sainthood of Cardinal John Henry Newman and the Oxford Movement he founded.

I know it's off-topic here, but I believe this statement is incorrect. The C of E "commemorates" John Henry Newman, but doesn't recognise him as a saint. (Individual members or congregations might choose to do so, but unofficially.) See, for example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calendar_of_saints_(Church_of_England)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commemoration_(Anglicanism)
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: Siely on Wednesday 05 June 24 13:57 BST (UK)
Okay. "Commemorates" but still seems like an increase in Catholicism
Title: Re: Marrying Cousins
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 05 June 24 14:55 BST (UK)
The C of E has included many shades of colour for a long time.  Initially it was at pains to distance itself from the RC church but at least since the 19th cent there have been "Low Church" parishes which tend towards simpler ceremony and "High Church" parishes which tend towards RC-style pomp.  However they will bury their differences to defend their position as C of E, definitely not RC nor Nonconformist.  Some people will attend a church other than their own parish depending on personal preference.