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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: goldie61 on Tuesday 28 May 24 05:53 BST (UK)

Title: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 28 May 24 05:53 BST (UK)
The spelling is wonderful in this will!  ;)

'.......... Itme I give to my daster
Thomson Pomery the little b..... p..... during her
life and after her death to her son Charles Pomery
and Grace her daster..............


Anybody make out those two words?
Many thanks
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: horselydown86 on Tuesday 28 May 24 15:23 BST (UK)
I've looked at this a few times but don't have much that is credible to offer.

The most likely letters (IMO) are:

1.  b-e-?-f/s-e
2.  p-a?-r?-k?-e

Would a bease parke be a thing in Cornwall?
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 28 May 24 22:35 BST (UK)
Thanks for looking HD.
A bit of a puzzler isn't it?
That was pretty much what I'd seen - 'a bease park', which doesn't make any sense, even in Cornwall I suspect!
I'll see if I can find anything resembling it for any clues.
As I say, the spelling is a bit left field sometimes in the will.
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: mckha489 on Tuesday 28 May 24 22:46 BST (UK)
Might it be an old name for a bee hive?
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Tuesday 28 May 24 22:55 BST (UK)
Might it be an old name for a bee hive?

I love that idea mckha!  ;D
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: tonepad on Wednesday 29 May 24 06:05 BST (UK)
A modern spelling of "cow field" in the Cornish language would be "bugh parc".

https://www.cornwalls.co.uk/cornwall/language.htm

Cow - bugh is also beugh
Field - parc is also park

Tony
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 29 May 24 11:23 BST (UK)
That's interesting tonepad.
It sounds a definite possibility.
Thanks for that.
Perhaps it's 'beast Parke', with this scribe's idiosyncratic spelling!
Or even 'beife parke'?
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: horselydown86 on Wednesday 29 May 24 14:16 BST (UK)
Thanks Tony, the parc/park makes for a compelling case.

The first word ends with either _fe or _se.

Do you have an opinion on which of beife or beafe on the one hand or beise or bease on the other might be a non-Cornish speaker's attempt at bugh/beugh?
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Wednesday 29 May 24 21:30 BST (UK)
I'd thought about that HD overnight, as your brain does!

The word for 'daughter' here, on this clip, I've initially transcribed as 'daster'
Looking again, it could well be 'dafter'.
In which case, this scribe could be using 'f' for that 'ugh' or 'gh' sound, which makes that word for the park 'beufe' into 'beugh(e)'.

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: tonepad on Thursday 30 May 24 05:34 BST (UK)
Cow in Welsh is "buwch"
Using Google Translate the pronunciation can be listened to.


Tony
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: horselydown86 on Thursday 30 May 24 05:45 BST (UK)
The word for 'daughter' here, on this clip, I've initially transcribed as 'daster'
Looking again, it could well be 'dafter'.

It could be either dafter or daster.

We know it's after, but the f isn't crossed, despite being next to a t which is crossed.  Is the f in life crossed?

--Tony's reply has landed while I was typing.  Thanks Tony.--

I'm not sure we can ever be certain about this, but it's a very soft sound in the translator and therefore in my crude understanding would be more likely to be represented by an f than an s.

What the audio does tell us is that no English consonant is anywhere close to an exact match.
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: moolerr on Thursday 30 May 24 06:29 BST (UK)
Certainly puzzling. There were plenty of Grace Pomery in Cornwall round about that time. Try
Name   Grace Pomery
Residence   Kenwyn, Cornwall, England
Probate Date   7 Aug. 1846
Death Year   Abt 1846
which may be the death of your Grace and may contain a clue.
Title: Re: 1783 Cornish will - a couple of words
Post by: goldie61 on Thursday 30 May 24 08:57 BST (UK)
Thanks everybody for your thoughts.

Grace, daughter of Thomasin Pomery of this will was born in 1670.
Sorry my mistake on the title of the post.
The date of this will is 1677.