RootsChat.Com
General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: CultureHealingCommunities on Sunday 26 May 24 19:47 BST (UK)
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Hello, any chance anyone remembers Black troops in the areas of Yorkshire or Northumberland during WW2, between 1942 and 1944? Thank you, Sandra
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You have several duplicate posts on other boards.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883011.0;topicseen
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You have several duplicate posts on other boards.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883011.0;topicseen
But I have just published one!
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Hi again,
Which black troops (As you call them) do you mean, members of the British troops, American troops, or Commonwealth forces troops and associated allied counties in occupation who solders managed to get to GT Britain before their counties were occupied by Hitler. (Like Polish or French troops etc)
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I saw my first African American about 1946-ish. One day a neighbour came to the end of his garden where we local children were playing and said his daughter was coming home for a visit and bringing a black American Soldier with her. His daughter didn't live locally, she'd been posted to an army camp somewhere. The couple duly arrived and waved to us, at which we squealed excitedly and waved back.
There was a training camp for African American forces in Cottingham and I think Driffield, both places in the East riding of Yorkshire.
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You have several duplicate posts on other boards.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883011.0;topicseen
But I have just published one!
You posted in Durham, North Yorkshire, Yorkshire East Riding and here.
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I saw my first African American about 1946-ish.
There was a training camp for African American forces in Cottingham and I think Driffield, both places in the East riding of Yorkshire.
Thank you very much, this is wonderful. Would you mind if I include your quote on the website we are preparing? it would be just a quote from your post and you would say if you would like Rena or just something anonymous like 'source' but it is really precious, it shows what we have been saying that everybody were really friendly towards Black American soldiers. (Sandra)
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Not everyone was happy to Black American soldiers in England during WWII. My sister went to school with a girl whose mother was English (not sure where she lived) and was a GI bride to a white American soldier, I remember her saying that girls she knew married black American men who professed to be Native American rather than African American which cause ill-feeling amongst their families in England.
From another point of view, I worked with a black veteran who said they weren't always treated well by other (white) soldiers and were segregated into their own units. He did, however, say that the people in Britain were much more welcoming when stationed there.
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Please see
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=883011.msg7558670#msg7558670
There are several duplicate posts as per reply above by K Garrad but I have asked the moderator to merge them
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My father was in the RAF and at some point had a conversation with some USAF officers. They were very dismissive of black personnel in their forces. The British officers were not impressed by their attitude.
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My father was in the RAF and at some point had a conversation with some USAF officers. They were very dismissive of black personnel in their forces. The British officers were not impressed by their attitude.
Molly, White American military have done dreadful things to the Black ones, and tried to bully several British people. I think they had some surprises, British people do not take well on being bullied into racist situations.
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There's a lot of info on black americans over here in the war..Some of the stories are from personal experince with the black soldiers.
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There's a lot of info on black americans over here in the war..Some of the stories are from personal experince with the black soldiers.
I am trying to go through posts, to see if any are part of the areas of inclusion.
If you find any, could you please send me the link?
Thank you very much!
(Sandra)
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I remember my mother telling me about a lady she met at the local shop, who she spoke to, her son who had very dark skin with black curly hair, telling mum she go £2 for him in WW2 and times were hard. so they did anything to make money to survive.
Anyway this leads me think there was black troops billeted in the Huddersfield area of Yorkshire England where mum lived then in 1944 ish
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I remember my mother telling me about a lady she met at the local shop, who she spoke to, her son who had very dark skin with black curly hair, telling mum she go £2 for him in WW2 and times were hard. so they did anything to make money to survive.
Anyway this leads me think there was black troops billeted in the Huddersfield area of Yorkshire England where mum lived then in 1944 ish
Hello, thank you for this. There is no certainty about numbers, but there were around 2.000 mixed race children that were the result of relationships between British women and African-American troops, from 1943/1944 onwards.
Only a very tiny percentage were accepted by the British family, and almost all suffered a lot due to racism, from the family and from the society.
Either they were abandoned to an orphanages, that were dedicated to children that would be 'impossible to find a family', like disabled children.
They were so many that there are documents recording conversations between the American and the British Governments, regarding 'the mixed-race children problem.'
Unlike their White counterparts, the Black soldiers could face a military tribunal and be arrested with they had relationships and children with White women.
They were also forbidden to take their brides or girlfriends to America, and those that paid a lot of money under the table to take them, were ostracised in America, many beaten and the British women were neither accepted by White people or by Black people.
There are several records of documents calling British women 'sluts and low lives' because they were caught in relationships with Black military.
Despite so many mixed-race children, only a small percentage is known to go forward trying to find their American families, their British families or both, and books, TV programs and websites could only find a handful of people, altogether.
And although there were several in Yorkshire, Northumberland and other surrounding areas, none has contacted us, despite our constant appeals, where we just wanted to ask some questions and keep them absolutely anonymous and confidential.
Maybe one day :)
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Hi again,
Which black troops (As you call them) do you mean, members of the British troops, American troops, or Commonwealth forces troops and associated allied counties in occupation who solders managed to get to GT Britain before their counties were occupied by Hitler. (Like Polish or French troops etc)
Hello, thank you for this.
Due to the high number of people involved, we are beginning this research with African-American military and Caribbean/African forces from the Colonies. As this is an initial project, and we have no funds, except for our meagre pockets, we will have to go slowly and then progress to the Indian troops.
It highly depends on the help we have from the community, like RootsChat, maybe we will be lucky enough to have people trusting us with their stories. Everything will remain anonymous and confidential, until we have people's consent to quote them.
I am asking everybody on Roots Chat to help us, old geezers, to have people's testimonies and cases, so we can launch a website more dedicated to individuals' experiences than to history per se.
Thank you
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t7g/
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t7h/
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t7g/
Thank you for this.
We do know that website, we even asked their permission to quote it on the website we are preparing, but we were told that they do not wish to have any part quoted or referred to.
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https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t7h/
Hello, thank you for this.
We do know about this website and this event, which was one of the most deplorable events involving Black American troops in Britain. We also know quite well Professor Rice, he was kind enough to support our project since we started our research 18 months ago.
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Hi again,
Which black troops (As you call them) do you mean, members of the British troops, American troops, or Commonwealth forces troops and associated allied counties in occupation who solders managed to get to GT Britain before their counties were occupied by Hitler. (Like Polish or French troops etc)
Hello, thank you for this.
Due to the high number of people involved, we are beginning this research with African-American military and Caribbean/African forces from the Colonies. As this is an initial project, and we have no funds, except for our meagre pockets, we will have to go slowly and then progress to the Indian troops.
It highly depends on the help we have from the community, like RootsChat, maybe we will be lucky enough to have people trusting us with their stories. Everything will remain anonymous and confidential, until we have people's consent to quote them.
I am asking everybody on Roots Chat to help us, old geezers, to have people's testimonies and cases, so we can launch a website more dedicated to individuals' experiences than to history per se.
Thank you
First African (mostly descendants of African Cotton slaves) American troops have been well researched with TV documentaries made over the years, also the indigenous native Indians also served in the USA forces in WW2, even using their native language to send messages as US native Indian spearhead troops at the front of location positions of targets for the native Indian gunners to fire in the Japan pacific theatre of war and there should plenty of research out there. The racism was more in American south relating back to the USA civil war days than in England or UK and we got it more here in the 1960's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud-DjdH1qpc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3rnCPeKBwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNDh9uLrFXE
https://www.google.com/search?q=doucumenraries++of+american+afican+troops+ww2+youtube&sca_esv=84953f2cc9fe3515&sca_upv=1&source=hp&ei=b4dXZqDXG5C2hbIP3oa_sAk&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZleVf-LzRFz6MJyOUgqx_stdcOdZ6uQd&ved=0ahUKEwjgytGy0bOGAxUQW0EAHV7DD5YQ4dUDCBM&oq=doucumenraries++of+american+afican+troops+ww2+youtube&gs_lp=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_Ag&sclient=gws-wiz
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Hello, thank you very much for the incredible effort you have made.
Unfortunately, and after seeing the videos and the search page, none of them has any link to our research, which is the Black troops in the areas of Yorkshire or Northumberland during WW2, between 1942 and 1944.
This is a global scale, and yes, we have found many, many documents, going through the archives.
Except for the areas North of England.
All it's gone, and, apparently, nobody remembers them, which makes me very sad.
There are no articles, even in newspapers, libraries, etc.
And none of the Black Veterans groups or associations replied to our appeal.
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Hello, thank you very much for the incredible effort you have made.
Unfortunately, and after seeing the videos and the search page, none of them has any link to our research, which is the Black troops in the areas of Yorkshire or Northumberland during WW2, between 1942 and 1944.
This is a global scale, and yes, we have found many, many documents, going through the archives.
Except for the areas North of England.
All it's gone, and, apparently, nobody remembers them, which makes me very sad.
There are no articles, even in newspapers, libraries, etc.
And none of the Black Veterans groups or associations replied to our appeal.
Hi Again,
First - a lot people who would have remember them will have died or to old to remember or those who do remember will be very few or thin on the ground so to speak, who are still alive, genealogy repositories, archives, some associations have what they call "the Gov 100 year rules" (UK rules though more info seems to be gradually to be letting out info like the 1939 register as time goes on. ) only very limited information is let out to the general public and most ancestry web sites don't talk about living people (Rootschat very much included ) is the main reason that some of the WW2 troops of all races and general civilian public could be still alive. You may have more luck in the USA and hence we are limited to what we can do to help you on this website in your groups quest.
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I have remember another occasion, though the father may have not been an American G I troop, though the timing is right, my brother born 1944 is 6 years older than me, one of mates same age as a teenager at school in Huddersfield in the 1960's was an half cast coloured skin as they were called them days with no racism towards him. He was just Ricky.
(Though it nothing to do with this but worth a mention, being a pensioner with a free bus [Though I have a car] travel on the local bus network for days out, traveling home many times when school kids are going home also teenage collage students and the skin colour [ Asian, White, African. Chinese] has absolutely no meaning what so ever and just all known by their first names)
:)
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Thank you, you are right, many people have now disappeared, this is why we have been asking people to share with us stories and memories. It will eventually disappear. Unfortunately, it seems there isn't much to share. Reality is, there were military sites in places like Hull, Chester-le-Street, Haltwhistle, Newcastle.
All gone.
There are more organisations related to records than weeds in garden.
Records are gone.
There are thousands of photographs related to the WW2.
Only a handful show Black military, none the areas up North.
There are dedicated spaces, including cemeteries.
No descendant or family tell us about the veteran deceased.
There are military organisations and archives.
These years after the WW2 weren't enough to work and digitise to make them available to people that seek information.
Ultimately, like in so many things in life, it has to be the individual to come forward.
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There would be little racism towards these black troop here ! but the USA white troops and the army authority would have !! to a point ! have tried to segregate them - although they needed them in action and they did better than expected. Having said the afore, records of the white G I's will be a bit thin on the ground as well, as all the USA troops were scattered around England for a short time for training before the D Day 1944 invasion of Normandy and on to Germany.
I think! try finding the descendants of the black troops in the USA through ancestry and to hear past down stories by their families (As to where billeted in England) is your best bet. ~ ?
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from reply #19
We do know that website, we even asked their permission to quote it on the website we are preparing, but we were told that they do not wish to have any part quoted or referred to.
I don’t understand this – do they not understand what the internet is? If they have published something online then it can be used, with attribution of course.
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from reply #19
We do know that website, we even asked their permission to quote it on the website we are preparing, but we were told that they do not wish to have any part quoted or referred to.
I don’t understand this – do they not understand what the internet is? If they have published something online then it can be used, with attribution of course.
we always make a point of asking permission, besides the quotes and references, I think that they may have been a bit burned due to unscrupulous people, but that is fine, we will just include a link for the website, as it is important to have a reference for good community work.
We had almost 2.200 hours until now of research , in the UK and the US, we have found many documents that will be available with the links and references, and, hopefully, be the first step to trigger people's memories.
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I think! try finding the descendants of the black troops in the USA through ancestry and to hear past down stories by their families (As to where billeted in England) is your best bet. ~ ?
The problem that we faced, along with many people looking for information, is that you need details like names and dates, and in this situation, we do not have any of these. For instance, if you try to find the roster for the 17 Special Service Company, 3 Platoon, in Hull, there is nothing at all, not even a word, including in the American archives and libraries, even at the Library of Congress, and that means you cannot get names, so, then, you cannot go to Ancestery, Fold3 or My Heritage and find people.
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https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/they-treated-us-royally-the-experiences-of-black-americans-in-britain-during-the-second-world-war
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https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/they-treated-us-royally-the-experiences-of-black-americans-in-britain-during-the-second-world-war
Thank you, that is a great article :)
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Not much help, but every clue helps!
( Hull) The Daily Mail 13 December 1943, page 4, column 3
Article title: Negro Music Pleased Hull Folk
The article describes a concert put on the Special Service Company in aid of the Hull "Daily Mail" Comforts for the Forces Fund.
Some of the performers were (partially) named:
Sgt. Ted Lewis - Producer/conductor
Lieut. H. Parks - sponsor
Staff Sgt. Wheatley
Pfc. Rudolph Gomez
Staff-Sgt Hopson
Corporal Major White
Cpl. Young
Pfc. Tucker
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There are a few small articles in Hull newspapers over the war years mentioning Sgt L. Mack, (sometimes L.M. Mack), conductor to an American coloured soldiers choir, performing at various churches and schools, raising funds for Comfort Funds.
It isn't clear what his skin colour is, though.
Here is one example, no need to subscribe to view the clip:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/weekly-examiner-sergeant-lm-mack/148585946/
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Hello everyone, we are a very small social enterprise doing a project about the WW2, and we had high hopes that this forum could bring some memories and stories that are being lost every single minute.
Any information about the WW2 African-American GIs or Caribbean/African/Indian troops in Newcastle, Gateshead, Sunderland, Yorkshire, North and South Tyne and Northumbria (Northumberland and County Durham), would be very welcome, and, if you can, could you please spread the message?
Thank you