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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JackYorkshire on Saturday 25 May 24 18:08 BST (UK)
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As I've been slowly researching my family tree, I've been finding graves. I have come across one where I'm stumped. This one is in Bowling Cemetery, Bradford, West Yorkshire, England.
It is the grave of Robert Wilkinson Booth (died 1936), Martha Clough (died 1945) and Raymond Boocock (died 1930 - infant). That makes sense as Robert and Martha are Raymond's grandparents. However, I've been told by Bradford Council that there are two people I don't know anything about also buried in the grave:
Sarah Ann Robinson
Death: 19.05.1905
Age: 55 years
Burial: 23.05.1905
Fred Hepworth
Death: 26.11.1908
Age: 11 weeks
Burial: 30.11.1908
I don't know who either of them are. There are related Robinsons, but the connection is weak - daughter's husband's
Grandmother.
So I've been researching Sarah Ann and Fred, but I can't find any information on them - only that Fred died in Bradford, which I already knew. My searches are coming up blank. A census, marriage, birth or baptism would at least show some family connections.
As Sarah Ann was buried first it seems likely the grave was purchased for her, so it would make sense for her to be part of the family.
Am I missing something here? Where else could I be searching? Is there anything else out there for Sarah Ann or Fred that im not seeing?
Thanks for your help!
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Sometimes the connection isn't straightforward. In the 1970s I contacted a cemetery for details on a family plot. My great-great-grandparents, a granddaughter who died young, their son, second his wife and some of their children plus his first wife. Also in the list was the most recent burial- what seemed to be a stranger. Turned out to be the second wife's sister who lived with the family for years. The strange thing was that my father's cousin had also checked the plot with the cemetery but that was before the last burial so it wasn't until I started searching he got the updated details.
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My great, great grandfather was buried in 1927 in a Oxford cemetery in the same grave as an Ann Bough who died in 1912. She was from Wexford in Ireland and I think it was a case of being buried in the grave with a stranger as I have never been able to find a link between the two people.
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Looking at births, guessing Fred is also the 1908 Bradford birth MMN Turner, there is a marriage of a Lily Turner to William Hepworth 1906, Bradford
and 1911 Heaton Street
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWJ2-3VL
Baptised at Bowling, St. John
Fred and Edmund 30 Sep 1908 (some reason as Lily Crossland on the transcription page but it is not written on the register) address 20 Quill Street
Checking the GRO, Edmund- MMN Turner
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Only a thought - perhaps the grave was on a limited timescale - did the family only "own" it for a designated time?
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I've been trying to find a Sarah Ann Robinson in the 1901 census, and the strongest possibilities seem to be these two:
837 Barkerend Road (RG13/4151 fo124 p11) - Sarah A Robinson as wife, but no husband present; also an unmarried daughter Alice M Storey, age 25. GRO index suggests Alice's mother's maiden name was Redsdale. FreeBMD has the marriage of Sarah Ann Storey to Harry Robinson in 1885.
27 Violet Court - in the Bowling area (RG13/4145 fo15 p21) - Sarah Ann wife of Lewis K Robinson; possible marriage in the Halifax district in 1875 of Lewis Robinson and Sarah Ann Jubb (from FreeBMD).
Do any of those extra surnames ring a bell? (But do check these for yourself, and there might be other possibilities that I've missed.)
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if you get to look at the Bowling registers themselves , they should have an address for the deceased. In several instances an infant will also have a named mother and father.
Pauline
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Several of my ancestors are buried in a family plot in the Ramshorn Kirk in Glasgow . However there is one burial, interred while the plot was still in active use by the family, of someone who seems to be entirely unconnected with my family. I say “unconnected” but bizarrely there is now a connection as this mysterious lady is my wife's greatx3 grandmother!
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Looking at births, guessing Fred is also the 1908 Bradford birth MMN Turner, there is a marriage of a Lily Turner to William Hepworth 1906, Bradford
and 1911 Heaton Street
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWJ2-3VL
Baptised at Bowling, St. John
Fred and Edmund 30 Sep 1908 (some reason as Lily Crossland on the transcription page but it is not written on the register) address 20 Quill Street
Checking the GRO, Edmund- MMN Turner
Thank you, that's very helpful. I will look those up.
Sorry, just to clarify, what does MMN mean?
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Sorry, just to clarify, what does MMN mean?
Mother's Maiden Name - can be seen in the GRO online birth index and from 1911 onwards (I think) at FreeBMD.
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I've been trying to find a Sarah Ann Robinson in the 1901 census, and the strongest possibilities seem to be these two:
837 Barkerend Road (RG13/4151 fo124 p11) - Sarah A Robinson as wife, but no husband present; also an unmarried daughter Alice M Storey, age 25. GRO index suggests Alice's mother's maiden name was Redsdale. FreeBMD has the marriage of Sarah Ann Storey to Harry Robinson in 1885.
27 Violet Court - in the Bowling area (RG13/4145 fo15 p21) - Sarah Ann wife of Lewis K Robinson; possible marriage in the Halifax district in 1875 of Lewis Robinson and Sarah Ann Jubb (from FreeBMD).
Do any of those extra surnames ring a bell? (But do check these for yourself, and there might be other possibilities that I've missed.)
Thanks Arthur, themselves are good finds. I'll have a look at them. There is nothing obvious there, but the Violet Court one is in Bowling which seems the more likely connection.
I hope we can find the connection as I'd like the family to put up a headstone as there either there was none or it has been lost under the grass.
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Mother's Maiden Name - can be seen in the GRO online birth index and from 1911 onwards (I think) at FreeBMD.
Thanks!
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if you get to look at the Bowling registers themselves , they should have an address for the deceased. In several instances an infant will also have a named mother and father.
Pauline
That might be difficult as I'm not nearby, but I might be able to get the death info and address from the GRO.
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When you consulted Bradford Council did they tell you IF the rights to burial were purchased and, if so, when and by whom?
Did they say if there is a headstone on the plot? (which indicates the rights of burial were purchased)
Boo
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Just searching the GRO for:
Sarah Robinson
Death 19.05.1905, age 55 years
Bradford
I'm getting nothing, which is strange.
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Fred comes up though:
HEPWORTH, FRED 0
GRO Reference: 1908 D Quarter in BRADFORD Volume 09B Page 25
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Okay, here is Fred. I can't quite make out the address. 20-2 Mill Street? Son of William and Lily Hepworth. Now off to find out who they were (again no obvious connection).
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That looks to me like "Quill" street, it's certainly the way I was taught to write a capital Q. And a search reveals there IS a Quill Street in said city.
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When you consulted Bradford Council did they tell you IF the rights to burial were purchased and, if so, when and by whom?
Did they say if there is a headstone on the plot? (which indicates the rights of burial were purchased)
Boo
They can't tell me details of people who I don't already know about because of Data Protection. They can only confirm who owns the grave if I ask them "Does X person own the grave?" Rather frustrating!
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The Bradford Parochial Voters Register 1896 (GENUK) gives the residents of the city by street who are entitled to vote. No. 20 isn't on the list, but then so are other numbers missing. Does this mean it was rented...I'm not sure what the rules were 'back in the day'.
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If they looked in the graves register for you, could they have misread an 8 as a 5? :-\
Death
June 1908 Bradford 9b 29
Robinson, Sarah Ann
Age 55
Fred was buried in 1908.
Unless Sarah Ann Robinson and Fred Hepworth turn out to be related, could it originally have been a public grave that was purchased by your family when, or some time after, Raymond was buried in 1930?
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could it originally have been a public grave that was purchased by your family when, or some time after, Raymond was buried in 1930
I recently did some research for a friend who couldn’t understand why four people unknown to her were buried in what she described as ‘her great grandfather’s’ grave, and why he wasn’t mentioned on the headstone. She had developed all sorts of intricate conspiracy theories as to why this had happened.
The answer was simply that it had been a public grave at the time of his burial but that the burial rights had subsequently been purchased by another family who had then erected a headstone which related only to their family and made no mention of him.
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If they looked in the graves register for you, could they have misread an 8 as a 5? :-\
Death
June 1908 Bradford 9b 29
Robinson, Sarah Ann
Age 55
If jonw65 is right about this, my 1901 census investigations (see Reply #5) will need to be revisited, because I used a fairly narrow age span. I can't do it just now, but I'll try to get round to it later, unless someone else gets there first.
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Some more from 1901 - the ones which seemed most likely:
RG13/4168 fo74 p13 - Royd St; age 48, wife of Israel; household includes Mary Schofield mother-in-law
RG13/4149 fo76 p29 - ?Mashington St; age 50, wife of Wright
RG13/4151 fo215 p6 - Garnett Sq; age 47, single
RG13/4147 fo87 p32 - John William St; age 46?, married but head; born Shropshire
RG13/4150 fo57 p25 - Gay Lane; age 46; single, with unmarried older sister Ann
RG13/4145 fo15 p21 - Violet Court, wife of Lewis (as above) [EDIT: looked again and it's Louis]
Some of these are just Sarah; I haven't done any investigations beyond the census, and I'm afraid I don't have time for them now.
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From last night, I thought it could be a Sarah Ann Call who married Louis Robinson in Shipley 1 April 1872, residence Bowling and his occupation is ginger beer maker; he was a soda maker 1891. There's a Mary Jane Robinson Q3 1872 MMN Call checking the GRO, and he is as Louis Kossith 1891 census with Sarah Ann and Mary Jane
Louis marries again to Harriet Garside and his address for probate 1925 has him at 14 Quill Street!
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Apologies, on marriage residence is Shipley for both parties, earlier census returns has Sarah Ann Call born in Bowling.
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Louis marries again to Harriet Garside and his address for probate 1925 has him at 14 Quill Street!
Same address for them in the 1911 census (RG14/26753 sch128) - they'd been married for a year.
Added:
Louis is a mineral water maker (worker), and at 20 Quill Street (where Fred Hepworth lived) is a Robert Robinson, single, mineral water manufacturer (employer).
Robert is at 20 Quill St in 1901 too, with his widowed mother Mary as head, and her grandson Riley Kitson (RG13/4149 fo139 p7).