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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Wexford => Topic started by: Wexflyer on Friday 17 May 24 01:08 BST (UK)
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There is a civil registration for the birth of Moses Doyle in Templeudigan (OS spelling Templeludigan)
in April, 1867.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03482/2279987.pdf (https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1867/03482/2279987.pdf)
Curiously, I can't find a corresponding baptism. The parish registers for Rathnure (AKA Templeudigan) exist.
I searched under Christian names Moses, Aidan/Aiden, and Mogue (all equivalent), and also the Latin versions, Aidanus and Edanus. I also checked for a surname other than Doyle, in case a father was named.
No sign! Strange - the reverse of the usual case of a missing civil registration.
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Family search suggests a baptism in Templeudigan, but no date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4
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Family search suggests a baptism in Templeudigan, but no date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4
By reference to the underlying original film number, that is his birth registration, not baptism.
They have mistakenly labeled it a "christening". Their usual sloppy job.
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Family search suggests a baptism in Templeudigan, but no date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4
By reference to the underlying original film number, that is his birth registration, not baptism.
They have mistakenly labeled it a "christening". Their usual sloppy job.
There is a separate entry for the civil birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-GNG2
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Family search suggests a baptism in Templeudigan, but no date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4
By reference to the underlying original film number, that is his birth registration, not baptism.
They have mistakenly labeled it a "christening". Their usual sloppy job.
There is a separate entry for the civil birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-GNG2
They frequently index the same item multiple times in different collections.
Here is the April 1867 Templeudigan parish register. No sign of Moses.
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634115#page/27/mode/1up (https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634115#page/27/mode/1up)
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Family search suggests a baptism in Templeudigan, but no date
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4
By reference to the underlying original film number, that is his birth registration, not baptism.
They have mistakenly labeled it a "christening". Their usual sloppy job.
There is a separate entry for the civil birth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QL3W-GNG2
Click on the Batch no. info on FamilySearch for the "christening" film no. you provided, viz:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4 (https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F5F3-BZ4)
You will see many names from all over Ireland, all in the same period of 1867 - all obviously from Civil Registration (which you can double check), all incorrectly labeled as "christenings".
In other words, all Irish civil registrations in that period seem to have been indexed as christenings by FamilySearch.
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Do you have him in later records?
Did he stay with Eliza, his mother?
I am just wondering if she was not from that parish, however, I can’t see a baptism anywhere else.
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With a name such as Moses, is there a possibility that the family were Jewish?
And therefore no COI or RC baptism.
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With a name such as Moses, is there a possibility that the family were Jewish?
And therefore no COI or RC baptism.
Nice try sir! LOL.
No, Moses is not a reference (directly) to the Jewish prophet, but to St. Aidan, the first bishop and patron saint of the diocese of Ferns - which is almost coterminous with county Wexford.
St. Aidan was also known by his pet name as Mogue, from a Gaelic contraction of "my young Aodh", where Aodh is the Gaelic version of Aidan.
Of course, Mogue was, shall we say disfavored by the British colonial overlords, as with all Irish Gaelic names, so they "translated" Mogue as Moses.
Thus Moses = Mogue = Aidan.
One and the same person can turn up under all three variants.
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Do you have him in later records?
Did he stay with Eliza, his mother?
I am just wondering if she was not from that parish, however, I can’t see a baptism anywhere else.
Moses is in many, many subsequent records, but not with his mother. He joined the BA in the 1880s, and went off to dutifully pacify the natives in various pink colored parts of the world.
His marriage registration in 1907 gives his father's name as James Doyle, but I suspect that is his maternal grandfather. That is one reason I am interested in locating a baptismal record, as it would probably show the father's name, if known.
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Is he the one who joined the Connaught Rangers in 1887 + birthplace, Rathnure?
Does that military record give a next of kin?
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Is he the one who joined the Connaught Rangers in 1887 + birthplace, Rathnure?
Does that military record give a next of kin?
Yes, that is him, Rathnure is the same parish as Templeudigan.
Of course his military record is on an additional subscription service (Fold3) of a subscription service, which is a step too far for me, for a very distant connection.
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Wexflyer, thank you for well done Moses, Mogue, Aidan piece.
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Is he the one who joined the Connaught Rangers in 1887 + birthplace, Rathnure?
Does that military record give a next of kin?
Yes, that is him, Rathnure is the same parish as Templeudigan.
Of course his military record is on an additional subscription service (Fold3) of a subscription service, which is a step too far for me, for a very distant connection.
I should say as an update that a kind soul generously provided a copy of his military record.
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The birth certificate seems to indicate he was illegitimate. Are any illegitimate children listed around that period in the parish register? Another possibility that he was older than the birth registration indicates but I suspect you've already checked for earlier entries/
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The birth certificate seems to indicate he was illegitimate. Are any illegitimate children listed around that period in the parish register? Another possibility that he was older than the birth registration indicates but I suspect you've already checked for earlier entries/
Yes, he was illegitimate, hence no father's namein the civil registration, and why I am interested in finding a baptismal record. And yes, I did check back for an earlier baptismal entry - none obvious.
One reason I posted this query was because it may be of some interest as the reverse of the usual case, i.e. where a baptism exists, but not the civil registration.
As for your other question, regarding whether other illegitimate children appear in the baptismal register, it is 18 months since I looked, and I am afraid I don't recall. And as Moses is a very distant DNA match, I lack the motivation to go back and recheck!