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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Martin514 on Monday 13 May 24 19:03 BST (UK)

Title: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Martin514 on Monday 13 May 24 19:03 BST (UK)
I'm going to Dublin in early June and want to do some research in the Registry of Deeds. Specifically my focus is on Union Street, a place no longer existant. My GGG GF James Nutty lived there with his wife Alice in 1793. Sometime between 1793 and 1807 he moved to Cork.

My working theory is that James and Alice's street was eliminated during the late 1790s or early 1800's by the Wide Streets Commission when Marlborough Street was extended down to the Liffey at what is now Aston Key.

How feasible is it to trace all the purchases made on a tiny Dublin Street from 1793 - 1807? What is the likelihood of finding a tenant listed? I assume James Nutty, who was a weaver, was a tenant rather than an owner

Any advice and suggestions as how to best prepare will be greatly appreciated. I have attached a late 18th century map where you can see Union Street, sometimes called Union Lane highlighted in yellow

Martin Nutty
New York City
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 13 May 24 19:46 BST (UK)
There's an alley that run between Lower Abbey Street and Eden Quay. You can see it still from both streets but it's clearer on Google Street view from Lower Abbey Street. If you go there and face Wynn's Hotel then the alleyway shows up on right side of the building and you can see if comes out to Eden Quay. Could this be what was Union Street?
https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3485383,-6.2589192,3a,75y,170.98h,98.48t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sELllX-Fs1QbSqzjffaKpIg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?coh=205409&entry=ttu
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Wexflyer on Monday 13 May 24 20:13 BST (UK)


What is the likelihood of finding a tenant listed? I assume James Nutty, who was a weaver, was a tenant rather than an owner


Slim to none.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: MollyC on Monday 13 May 24 20:26 BST (UK)
This view from 2009 shows the other end more clearly:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.347737,-6.2586041,3a,75y,318.83h,102.47t/data= !3m6!1e1!3m4!1syOu7OL4QZhi8lxOOjpmfHg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?coh=205409&entry=ttu

It appears to be a public road with double yellow lines running right through.

If there are "books of reference" for the compulsory purchases they may include names of occupiers as well as owners.  The papers of the Wide Street Commission appear to be held by the city library and archives.  Worth checking the catalogue and making an enquiry whether such information appears.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: athacliath62 on Monday 13 May 24 20:30 BST (UK)
also worth checking Newspapers, the wide street commission placed advertisements relating to each of their projects with notes regarding valuations etc.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: athacliath62 on Monday 13 May 24 20:31 BST (UK)
I think that lane beside Wynn's is part of Harbour Court, which is a little to the west of where Union lane/street was

It's shown on the openstreetmap for Dublin
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 13 May 24 20:47 BST (UK)
I think that lane beside Wynn's is part of Harbour Court, which is a little to the west of where Union lane/street was

It's shown on the openstreetmap for Dublin

You could be right- some maps clearly show Harbour Court running parallel to Lower Abbey Street and Eden Quay and then near Wynne's Hotel running between both streets.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: athacliath62 on Monday 13 May 24 20:55 BST (UK)
The Lane and Street have separate entries in McCready's Dublin Street Names (https://archive.org/details/dublinstreetnam00cregoog/page/n164/mode/2up) (1892)
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Sinann on Monday 13 May 24 21:02 BST (UK)
Lot of changes in the area between the 1817 and 1819 maps
https://www.dublinhistoricmaps.ie/maps/1800-1849/index.html
Is that Union St un-named or is it the lane without the building over it.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: athacliath62 on Monday 13 May 24 21:13 BST (UK)
Good view of it on this 1811 map (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dublincitypubliclibraries/5736517006), closer to the end of Marlborough Street
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Martin514 on Monday 13 May 24 23:03 BST (UK)
I don't think the alley at Wynns Hotel is the same As Union Street. Here's a copy of Rocque's map which dates to 1756. It looks a lot closer to Marlborough St then Drogheda St which is the precursor to O'Connell Street. Maybe I'm misreading??
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Wexflyer on Tuesday 14 May 24 01:51 BST (UK)
To return to OP's interests, I wonder if he is aware that all the RD records are available for viewing on the internet, on the FamilySearch site?
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Martin514 on Wednesday 15 May 24 13:42 BST (UK)
Thanks @Wexflyer, I've managed to use the Family Search locations date to find a bunch of Union Street records in the general time frame that is of interest.

I guess what is difficult to discern is the time frame I'm interested in which is 1790 - 1810 and how to decipher the actual entries which I assume cross references the actual Memorial records. I've attached an example which lists three Union Street entries of interest

Looking at the first entry, am i correct in undertanding
  - Napper to Dunn refers to the two parties on the transaction
  - Next is the book number where the memorial is recorded
  - Page location in the above book
  - What is the meaning of No235102?

Martin
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: MollyC on Wednesday 15 May 24 14:15 BST (UK)
It looks as if the transactions may have been numbered sequentially when they were commenced, but they were not entered in the books in strict order, perhaps because some took longer to complete than others.

The first three parts give a reference to exactly where a given transaction number wlll be found.  This was probably written on the deed itself as well, so any deed could be traced back to the entry in the books. 
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 15 May 24 15:33 BST (UK)
Wouldn't worry about the page number.
Go to page 10 on Family Search find v 345, click on camera icon
V 345 is 1781-1783
Check you have the correct Vol as more than one, in this case it's the first one.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-19C3-Z?i=2&cat=185720
Work down through the images to find you Memorial number.

M 235102 right hand page
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSJW-19CW-3?i=315&cat=185720
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Sinann on Wednesday 15 May 24 16:09 BST (UK)
Another way to find people on Union St is to use the Church Records on Irish Genealogy and put Union St in location, you'll get other addresses with Union in them as well but you might find something useful, it may also help to see when it stops being used.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 15 May 24 19:52 BST (UK)

Looking at the first entry, am i correct in understanding
  - Napper to Dunn refers to the two parties on the transaction
  - Next is the book number where the memorial is recorded
  - Page location in the above book
  - What is the meaning of No235102?

Martin

With reference to your questions:

- Napper to Dunn: Yes
- Book No.: Yes
- Page No.: Yes
- Number: This is the official number by which the memorial was registered. It should be on the above page number, in the above book. It will be in the margin, next to the start of the abstract of the deed (the "memorial").

Note that the numbers in any one book aren't sequential, as there were multiple books, for different locations, in use at any given time.

Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Martin514 on Wednesday 15 May 24 21:45 BST (UK)
Thanks so much to everyone, you've been both patient and kind with my ignorance.

I feel much better prepared to do the research. No doubt I'll be posting again looking for help with decipering 18th century script

Martin
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: Wexflyer on Wednesday 15 May 24 21:53 BST (UK)
Thanks so much to everyone, you've been both patient and kind with my ignorance.

I feel much better prepared to do the research. No doubt I'll be posting again looking for help with decipering 18th century script

Martin

Just to warn you - some writing clerks were wonderful, others will fill you with despair.
Title: Re: Registry of Deeds: Union Street Research
Post by: felixquaxer on Friday 31 May 24 19:16 BST (UK)
Martin 514
 In those days (late 18th Century) Great Marlborough Street ended at the corner of Lower Abbey St. then called Ship Buildings. There was a narrow lane to the riverside called Ferryboat Lane or Union Lane 150 years ago. When this lane was widened this short street to Eden Quay was for some years after 1776 called Union St. before it became merged in Marlborough Street

Page 85 of North Dublin  by Fr. Dillon Cosgrave (1977 Paperback edition  but first published in 1909

Enjoy your trip
FelixQuaxer