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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: ruthruss on Monday 13 May 24 11:20 BST (UK)

Title: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ruthruss on Monday 13 May 24 11:20 BST (UK)
Hello there, I am searching for the first wife (I believe she was French) of my ancestor William Ruskin Allen (b. 1895 in Berkshire, England). The only lead I have is the summary of a letter written by William Allen's father John, to William's wife, when William was taken prisoner in World War 1. The letter was donated to the Imperial War Museum and they then lost it (only the summary remains, which does not name William's wife).

William lived in France (mostly Paris) between 1912 and 1917, so if the woman he married was French, it would be during that time. He did not marry in England. After being repatriated at the end of the war, William returned to England, and later married a woman in Ghana. His children from that marriage know nothing about a first wife and deny her existence.

Any help would be so appreciated. I have been searching for her for many years.

Here is the link to the letter summary: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1030007705
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 13 May 24 11:54 BST (UK)
German POW records list his next of kin as his father J W Allen. No mention of a spouse.

There's a Red Cross missing soldier search enquiry for Capt. William Ruskin Allen from Margaret Drinkwater, Allendune, Blakeney, Norfolk. When he was traced to a PoW camp she was informed by telephone. That would be his sister, I think.


Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ruthruss on Monday 13 May 24 11:55 BST (UK)
German POW records list his next of kin as his father J W Allen. No mention of a spouse.

There's a Red Cross missing soldier search enquiry for Capt. William Ruskin Allen from Margaret Drinkwater, Allendune, Blakeney, Norfolk. When he was traced to a PoW camp she was informed by telephone. That would be his sister, I think.

You are correct, Margaret was his sister.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: trish1120 on Monday 13 May 24 11:56 BST (UK)
I see on his M/C to Joan he says he is a Bachelor.
Maybe he never married the French Woman.

Trish :)
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: mckha489 on Monday 13 May 24 11:57 BST (UK)
Deleted. Red boxed
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ruthruss on Monday 13 May 24 12:03 BST (UK)
I see on his M/C to Joan he says he is a Bachelor.
Maybe he never married the French Woman.

Trish :)

This is definitely possible, however I am slightly hesitant to believe the "bachelor", as his brother Jack listed himself as a "widow" on his M/C to his second wife, when in actual fact he was divorced! If one brother did such a thing, perhaps two did.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 13 May 24 12:07 BST (UK)
Quote
William lived in France (mostly Paris) between 1912 and 1917

He was commissioned in the British Army in September 1914

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28899/page/7222
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: joger on Monday 13 May 24 12:57 BST (UK)
Do you know where he lived in Paris?
Do you know which are the other places he lived in?
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: TreeSpirit on Monday 13 May 24 13:25 BST (UK)
My personal summary:
- I’ve checked the 20 Parisien 10-year marriage indices 1913-1922: nothing found
- His possible wife is not listed as his contact when he’s a prisoner of war in 1918: https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/791739/698/29571/
- He’s listed as a bachelor when he marries in 1931
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: joger on Monday 13 May 24 13:33 BST (UK)
I found no marriage in the tables 1903 1912 .

If he was married his wife may have died before him .

Should check the births .
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ShaunJ on Monday 13 May 24 14:11 BST (UK)
There are several public trees that have WRA's first marriage to Lydia Rose Duncombe in Rochford, Essex in 1917; some have a child Francis born 1918 in Stoke on Trent (died 1920). Lydia Rose Allen appears to have died in Stoke in 1918 aged 23

How much of all that is guesswork and/or surmise, I don't know
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: MollyC on Monday 13 May 24 14:24 BST (UK)
Quote
... his brother Jack listed himself as a "widow" on his M/C to his second wife, when in actual fact he was divorced!

I had come across a similar thing on a C. of E. marriage cert. in 1919.  I found out quite recently, probably from RootsChat, that at the time it was legal to do so!  Possibly changed in 1928.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: joger on Monday 13 May 24 14:39 BST (UK)
Have you checked the marriages at the British Embassy in Paris?
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: joger on Monday 13 May 24 15:17 BST (UK)
There are several public trees that have WRA's first marriage to Lydia Rose Duncombe in Rochford, Essex in 1917; some have a child Francis born 1918 in Stoke on Trent (died 1920). Lydia Rose Allen appears to have died in Stoke in 1918 aged 23

How much of all that is guesswork and/or surmise, I don't know

Yes, freebmd has a Francis W Allen born 1918 mother's maiden name Duncombe. Worth checking the certificate to see if the father's first names are William Ruskin ?
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: giblet on Monday 13 May 24 20:16 BST (UK)
You have him returning and marrying, therefore some of the information on the below has errors as according to the below info he died 1915. Maybe the part about informing his daughter in law is a error as well??

From the link you provided
quote" Photocopied ts transcription (5pp) of extracts from letters written home by Private P H Allen during his service with the 10th Battalion Alberta Regiment, Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) on the Western Front, May 1915, containing graphic descriptions of his involvement in the Second Battle of Ypres, just before his death in action on 22 May 1915; together with a photocopied ms letter (1p) from J W Allen informing his daughter-in-law that her husband, Captain William Ruskin Allen, has been reported missing in action and advising her to "keep a stiff upper lip", plus a photograph of Captain Allen in a German prisoner of war camp."

Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 13 May 24 20:27 BST (UK)
Is it not Private P. H. Allen who died on 22 May 1915?

Quote
letters written home by Private P H Allen during his service with the 10th Battalion Alberta Regiment, Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) on the Western Front, May 1915, containing graphic descriptions of his involvement in the Second Battle of Ypres, just before his death in action on 22 May 1915

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1564616/percy-henry-allen/
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: giblet on Monday 13 May 24 20:38 BST (UK)
Is it not Private P. H. Allen who died on 22 May 1915?

Quote
letters written home by Private P H Allen during his service with the 10th Battalion Alberta Regiment, Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) on the Western Front, May 1915, containing graphic descriptions of his involvement in the Second Battle of Ypres, just before his death in action on 22 May 1915

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/1564616/percy-henry-allen/

Arh im with you now, if i had read it right the first time, the "together with" should have told me 2 different lots of info in together. Thanks
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: aghadowey on Monday 13 May 24 21:59 BST (UK)
It is all a bit confusing, giblet.

According to the summary (link provided in original post here) "together with a photocopied ms letter (1p) from J W Allen informing his daughter-in-law that her husband, Captain William Ruskin Allen, has been reported missing in action and advising her to "keep a stiff upper lip", plus a photograph of Captain Allen in a German prisoner of war camp." If P.H. Allen died in 1915 and W.R. Allen was taken P.O.W. in 1918 then the photo in German camp had to have been added to the other papers after P.H. Allen died.

The missing letter seems to have been in P.H. Allen's paper's but it also could have been put with his letters after he died in 1915. If that's the case then could the bride from the 1917 marriage (Lydia Jane Duncombe) have been the daughter-in-law mentioned? It looks like she gave birth to a son but died 1918 (influenza perhaps?). Perhaps either his wife died shortly before he became a P.O.W. or that he originally listed his father as next of kin and it wasn't changed when he married.

See reply #18 for information which rules out wife being Lydia Jane Duncombe.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: bbart on Monday 13 May 24 23:20 BST (UK)
Regarding the trees showing wife Lydia and son Francis:

Lydia married a William R Allen, but not William RUSKIN Allen.  Lydia's husband was the son of George and Emma/Emily Allen. George and Emma/Emily raised their grandson Francis after Lydia's death.
William Ruskin Allen's parents were John W and Anna Laura Allen.

In 1911 , George and Emily/Emma's address was 56, Lower Spring Road, Longton, Staffordshire, England.  They can be tracked forward a decade to see them with their grandchild Francis.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ruthruss on Wednesday 15 May 24 02:27 BST (UK)
Thank you all so much for your input! I really appreciate the time people have taken. Sadly I may have to resign myself to never knowing the truth, as I have no other information that could give any more clues.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: jorose on Sunday 19 May 24 04:39 BST (UK)
Quote
William lived in France (mostly Paris) between 1912 and 1917

What was his occupation and do you have any addresses for him in Paris or other proof he was there in the mentioned years? Possible he was elsewhere in France or elsewhere in Europe entirely, especially during the war.

It is also possible that transcription of the letter is incorrect and the woman was e.g. fiancee not wife.
Title: Re: Searching for a secret marriage in France - early 1900s
Post by: ruthruss on Monday 27 May 24 10:08 BST (UK)
Quote
William lived in France (mostly Paris) between 1912 and 1917

What was his occupation and do you have any addresses for him in Paris or other proof he was there in the mentioned years? Possible he was elsewhere in France or elsewhere in Europe entirely, especially during the war.

It is also possible that transcription of the letter is incorrect and the woman was e.g. fiancee not wife.

Hi there, all these things are definite possibilities. Unfortunately everything I "know" from that time is so vague. He never EVER talked about his childhood, and I wonder if he lied about the year of his birth also, as his daughters are adamant he was born in 1896, but really it was 1895. His "wife" is, I suspect, to remain a mystery.