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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: rkive82 on Friday 10 May 24 17:37 BST (UK)

Title: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Friday 10 May 24 17:37 BST (UK)
My person of great interest is Jørgen Hass Olsen Nyland. I am now thinking that he is my maternal grandfather - or at least the brother of a man who was the father of my mother Hjørdis Paulsen Olsen who was born on 28th September 1924 in Trondheim, Sør-Trondelag. My mother's birth certificate states that Arthur Olsen was the father, but DNA does not support the fact that Arthur Edvard Olsen 1890-1949 was my grandfather.
Strong DNA matches lead me to believe that JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND is my grandfather. He was born on 16th April 1891 in Vefsn, Nordland. Jørgen died on 23rd April 1962 in Vefsn. In 1900 he was incorrectly identified (methinks) as a female with his parents Ole Jorgen Olsen 1854-1933 and Ellen Petrine Olsdatter Christenson 1856-1922. In 1910 Jorgen is in Vefsn with "Kristensen" family as Skoleelev.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Friday 10 May 24 17:43 BST (UK)
To continue ... Jørgen Hass Olsen Nyland married Astrid Olsdatter Skutvik on 30th December 1931 in Trondheim and they had three daughters.
So where was Jørgen between 1910 and 1931, particularly 1923/24 when he would have met my grandmother, Walborg Fredrikke Paulsen 1893- 1978?
I have trees on Anc***** and MyH******* and have found many DNA matches on both sites.
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 11 May 24 10:21 BST (UK)
Hi
This is Jørgen Hass Olsen Nyland in Vefsn in 1920 living with his parents. He was an accounting secretary. He wasn't present at the time of the census stating he was in Mosjøen Town.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/74250/11025

Ian



Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 11 May 24 13:30 BST (UK)
In 1900 he was incorrectly identified (methinks) as a female with his parents ....

It certainly looks like it......

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/37511/1084


Ian



Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 11 May 24 13:31 BST (UK)
1910
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/36906/763


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 11 May 24 15:02 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for those, Ian. Is it OK to post those images on my Ancestry and MyHeritage trees?

So we are getting closer to the 1923/24 period when my mother was conceived. It is appropriate that I am researching this topic as it is Mother's Day tomorrow here in California. Mosjoen and Trondheim aren't far apart, so a connection at the end of 1923 between Jørgen and my grandmother, Walborg is still a possibility.

I have a shared DNA match of 316 cM 5% with a grandson of Jørgen and his wife Astrid Olsdatter Skutvik. Ancestry says that he and I could be half 1st cousins, so I hope my theory is correct. Is there somewhere I can post on RootsChat to get help in analysing my DNA data?
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 11 May 24 15:13 BST (UK)
Thanks very much for those, Ian. Is it OK to post those images on my Ancestry and MyHeritage trees?
You're welcome.
Yes, these records are free online.

Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Saturday 11 May 24 15:15 BST (UK)
Is there somewhere I can post on RootsChat to get help in analysing my DNA data?

This looks to be the place.....

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/ancestral-family-tree-dna-testing/


Ian




Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 11 May 24 15:26 BST (UK)
Thank you Ian.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: garstonite on Sunday 12 May 24 08:37 BST (UK)
just a suggestion - could this tree owner help ?
https://gw.geneanet.org/ingem44?n=nyland&oc=&p=jorgen+hass+olsen

he has the exact birth and death details as yourself - you can join www.geneanet.org  for free and then contact him ??   might be a very rich cousin ...lol
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 12 May 24 13:07 BST (UK)
Walborg in the 1920 Census with family:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/74138/106940

Ian



Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 12 May 24 16:00 BST (UK)
Thank you Garstonite and Ian.
The tree owner on geneanet has an enormous tree with 230,000. It's worth contacting him to see what he knows and/or see if he is interested in researching further.
We have a lot of information about my grandmother Walborg. The 1920 Census document will be a useful addition.
I found a profile for Jørgen on geni and have access to photos of extended family. I have leads to follow today. It is Mother's Day here in California.
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 12 May 24 16:35 BST (UK)
Hjørdis was born illegitimate. Walborg was recorded as married though not to Arthur. I can't make out all the text beside her name. I can't find a marriage for her and Arthur.

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/3149/100556/7


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 12 May 24 17:23 BST (UK)
We don't believe that Walborg ever married anybody. The address for Walborg was Bakkegate 14A, her address in Trondheim.
The father of Hjørdis was said to be Arthur Olsen and we believed that for 5+ years, but no DNA result supports this. Hence my post.
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 12 May 24 17:36 BST (UK)
Ok.
It does say that she was married.
Just need to find him then.

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 12 May 24 18:44 BST (UK)
We knew my grandmother and have lots of photos and memories going back to the late 1800s. I have been researching her Paulsen family for more than 10 years and nothing else suggests she married.
My focus is on Jørgen Hass Olsen Nyland as DNA strongly suggests he is my grandfather.
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Tuesday 14 May 24 15:09 BST (UK)
Can somebody find a full birth record for Jørgen please. I have this record which has been cropped and would like to know all the details.
Jørgen was born 16th April 1891 in Vefsn, Nordland
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 14 May 24 16:06 BST (UK)
 Hi
 https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/3892/20817/99

Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Tuesday 14 May 24 16:16 BST (UK)
Thanks very much, Ian.
What is that information on the second page? Who are those people?
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 14 May 24 16:20 BST (UK)
They are the godparents.

Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Tuesday 14 May 24 16:24 BST (UK)
AHA! That might be useful information. Thanks.
Would that document be the only official birth record for Jørgen?
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Tuesday 14 May 24 16:32 BST (UK)
Yes, it looks to be so.

Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Thursday 16 May 24 17:38 BST (UK)
On the 1900 Census discussed above, Jørgen is recorded as Jorgine.
There is another brother(?) recorded as Helmer between Andreas and Karoline. We know that Marius Elvin Hass Olsen Nyland was born in June 1877 between Andreas and Karoline. Is Helmer really Marius?
And where is Vilhelm Anton Mark Olsen Nyland born around 1886 in Vefsn?
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 19:26 BST (UK)
And where is Vilhelm Anton Mark Olsen Nyland born around 1886 in Vefsn?
Richard

This looks to be Vilhelm - nr 20:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/3892/20817/54

Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 19:30 BST (UK)
I think Helmer may actually be Vilhelm.


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 19:32 BST (UK)
The 1900 Census states that Sigurd is Karoline's son.


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Thursday 16 May 24 19:46 BST (UK)
Thanks for the birth record for Vilhelm.
I think you are correct in thinking "Helmer" is Vilhelm with a birth year of 1886.
That means that Marius Elvin Hass born 1877 is missing from this 1900 Census.
And again you are correct in naming Sigurd as Karoline's son. Karoline married a Lauritz Andreas Jensen who is not on the census record.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 20:19 BST (UK)
Vilhelm Nyland left for America in 1919 with wife - nr 483:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/43743/46



Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Thursday 16 May 24 22:10 BST (UK)
Thank you for that.
Here is a 1900 Census for a Helmer Marius Olsen. Could he be our Marius Elvin Hass Olsen who is not with his family in Vefsn.
Who are the other people, I wonder? Relatives? Does it say he is married "g" ?
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 22:15 BST (UK)
Yes, it could be.
"g" is gift - married.
Rows 1-5 is his family.


Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Thursday 16 May 24 22:52 BST (UK)
This is Helmar and Pauline's marriage record. It could well be him - nr 17:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/3892/20825/36


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Thursday 16 May 24 23:04 BST (UK)
Birth year and place and Ole Olsen as his father fits. I haven't seen any trees that suggest Marius ever married. This needs investigation.
The children on the 1900 Census suggest Marius would have been very young to sire them. Perhaps they aren't all his?
Thanks
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 17 May 24 10:28 BST (UK)
The Helmer Marius from the marriage record is not your Helmer Marius.........
This is his birth record. Same father's name just - nr 191:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/2551/16509/121



This is Marius Has Olsen Nyland (Helmer Marius) birth record.
I'm not too sure where Helmer came from.
He is the Marius Has Olsen Nyland from the 1920 Census posted earlier - nr 117:

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/2551/16509/117


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 17 May 24 10:39 BST (UK)
I'm not too sure where Helmer came from......

I wonder just..... Could Ole Olsen be the father of Marius and Helmer?


Ian



Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Friday 17 May 24 14:52 BST (UK)
On the birth record for Helmer Marius, what is the word after Ole Olsen (father's name)?
****
"He is the Marius Has Olsen Nyland from the 1920 Census posted earlier - nr 117"
I thought Marius was in the USA in 1920.
****
I just noticed on the 1920 Census record for Elen Petrine Olsen, it appears to say that she had 12 children and only 11 are still alive. Am I translating correctly?
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/view/74250/11023
****
Thanks for your continued work on this.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Friday 17 May 24 14:55 BST (UK)
OOOPS. I just revisited the 1920 Census and see Marius Has Olsen Nyland there.
He appears to have travelled a lot between Norway and the United States of America,
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 17 May 24 15:12 BST (UK)
On the birth record for Helmer Marius, what is the word after Ole Olsen (father's name)?
****
Thanks for your continued work on this.

You're welcome Richard.

The word is "Kjerringvatne" I believe.


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Friday 17 May 24 15:16 BST (UK)
I just noticed on the 1920 Census record for Elen Petrine Olsen, it appears to say that she had 12 children and only 11 are still alive. Am I translating correctly?
Yes you are.

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 18 May 24 13:39 BST (UK)
Elen Petrine Olsdatter was born in January 1856 in Vefsn. She is (apparently) a direct ancestor of mine. Can somebody please translate EVERYTHING on this birth record.
Elen's mother Ane Kjerstine Christine Eriksdatter seems to have been between husbands at the time. I am very keen to learn the identity of "Ole Olsen."
Thank you.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 18 May 24 16:51 BST (UK)
There was another birth/baptism record for Elen #39 saved to her profile elsewhere. Where is that full image?
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 19 May 24 13:34 BST (UK)
Born - 31 Jan
Christened - 12 May

Illegitimate

Widow Anne Christine Ericksdatter Ström has given as the father
Farmhand Ole Olsen of Alstahaug Prestegard

Erik Nilsen Ström, Lars Johansen, Nilla Johansdatter, Nicoline Jacobsdatter and Johanna Olsdatter.

Christened by the mother at home

Erik Nilsen Ström reported the baby because of illegitimacy


Ian


Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 19 May 24 13:40 BST (UK)
There was another birth/baptism record for Elen #39 saved to her profile elsewhere. Where is that full image?
Richard

https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/16549/92961/78


Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 19 May 24 14:43 BST (UK)
Thanks very much again Ian.
Why are there 2 records? I wonder why the birth dates are different? 31st Jan v 1 Jan?
Is the information on #39 the same as #49?
****
So now we're looking for "Farmhand Ole Olsen of Alstahaug Prestegard." He is my direct relative.
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 19 May 24 14:47 BST (UK)
There were 2 books used. I don't know why. The handstyles are not the same either.

Ian

Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 19 May 24 14:57 BST (UK)
I just got a reply on Geni.
****
"The Ministers book (written by the priest) has the no. 49 because the Ministerial book includes both the parishes of Vefsn and Mosjøen.

While the Copy book written by the Bell-ringer only includes the parish of Vefsn, hence no. 39.

Ministerila book: [https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20050428030437

Bell-ringers book: [https://www.digitalarkivet.no/kb20071005620102
****
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: jamcat95 on Sunday 19 May 24 15:01 BST (UK)
Ok.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Sunday 19 May 24 15:19 BST (UK)
So perhaps this information would have been common knowledge in the area.
The mother, Ane Christine (Kjerstine) Eriksdatter apparently had a colourful life giving birth to children sired by four different fathers. Perhaps I'll start a different thread for her, since I am interested to identify how other DNA matches are related to me.
****
It's early in the California desert and I have to get out soon to walk before the heat of the day.
Thanks. R
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 18:18 BST (UK)
I am reviewing the Olsen Nyland family.
In the 1900 Census we have Sigurd Olsen born 19/9/99. It says he was the son of #5 - or does it say #3?
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/37511/1084
Where is the birth record for Sigurd? Was he the son of Karoline or her brother Andreas (born 1876)?
Richard
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 15 June 24 19:20 BST (UK)
I am reviewing the Olsen Nyland family.
In the 1900 Census we have Sigurd Olsen born 19/9/99. It says he was the son of #5 - or does it say #3?
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/37511/1084
Where is the birth record for Sigurd? Was he the son of Karoline or her brother Andreas (born 1876)?
Richard

I'd say son of #5, so Karoline was an unmarried mother.
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 19:33 BST (UK)
Hmmm. So where is the birth record for Sigurd? I haven't found it yet after some digging.
R
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 15 June 24 19:35 BST (UK)
Hmmm. So where is the birth record for Sigurd? I haven't found it yet after some digging.
R
Did you find Olaf's birth, also 1899?
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 19:41 BST (UK)
No. I haven't found Olav's birth either.  ???
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 15 June 24 19:43 BST (UK)
No. I haven't found Olav's birth either.  ???

Neither did I.
Are any of these children born in Vefsne?
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 19:52 BST (UK)
I believe they were born in Mosjoen. So Yes. In Vefsn
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 15 June 24 19:58 BST (UK)
Olaf (nr.10)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/39615/56523/22
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: Zefiro on Saturday 15 June 24 20:05 BST (UK)
Sigurd (top)
https://media.digitalarkivet.no/en/view/39615/56523/23
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 20:06 BST (UK)
Great. Thank you.
I am calling him Olaf Mork Olsen Nyland (born 19th October 1999 and baptised 27th December 1899) as all the children took the last name Nyland.
R
Title: Re: Where was JØRGEN HASS OLSEN NYLAND in 1923/24 in Norway ?
Post by: rkive82 on Saturday 15 June 24 20:15 BST (UK)
Splendid! Sigurd Lund Lindseth Jenssen born 19th September 1999 was the son of Lauritz Andreas Jenssen and Karoline Amalie Olsdatter Nyland.
Thank you Zefiro  ;)