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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Kezzza on Monday 06 May 24 15:30 BST (UK)
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Hi I am hoping someone can help me solve a mystery.
I am looking for a birth/baptism record for:
Frederick Hibbert
Born abt 1865 either in Manchester, England or Germany.
The 1871 English Census states he was born in Manchester.
The 1881 English Census states he was born in Germany.
On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
I do not believe it is true as they were not married until 1868.
There are trees that have his mother as Mary Jane Stephenson however there is no proof of this.
I would appreciate any assistance in trying to find evidence to solve this.
Thank you in advance.
Kez
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mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Have you checked for a UK birth registration under Riley :-\
Are those the only two census he appears on?
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Yes that is a bit strange.
Thomas was young but do you know if he was a bachelor when they married? Just possible he had been widowed and the mother of Frederick was his first wife.
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On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Relationships on the census are how they are related to the head of the household, ie Thomas
Do you have the marriage certificate to Mary
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mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Have you checked for a UK birth registration under Riley :-\
Are those the only two census he appears on?
Hi yes I’ve tried under both Riley and Stephenson and variations of those
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mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Are those the only two census he appears on?
They are the only ones I’m about to confirm him on. There may be others but nothing concrete
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Note there is a marriage for a Mary Jane Stephenson 19 to Thomas Hibbert 21
24 Dec 1866 so maybe that is where her name comes into it
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On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Relationships on the census are how they are related to the head of the household, ie Thomas
Do you have the marriage certificate to Mary
I have someone sending a copy over when they find it, however I think it may says widower which is where people have Mary Jane Stephenson. But I am just guessing
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That's good because we can compare it with the other marriage.
The Thomas marriage in 1866 has father Nathaniel Hibbert
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On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Relationships on the census are how they are related to the head of the household, ie Thomas
Do you have the marriage certificate to Mary
Oh I never thought about it in that way. thanks :)
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1891 has his place of birth as Newton Heath living at 53, Parker Street, Bradford cum Beswick,
RG12/3257 f21 p35
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That's good because we can compare it with the other marriage.
The Thomas marriage in 1866 has father Nathaniel Hibbert
Hopefully I will get it tomorrow and I’ll let you all know :)
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Mary Jane Hibbert death Manchester Jun 1868 age 20.
So that could be his first wife.
Doesn't help with a birth for Frederick but hopefully will sort the marriages/wives out.
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1891 has his place of birth as Newton Heath living at 53, Parker Street, Bradford cum Beswick,
RG12/3257 f21 p35
Is this for Frederick?
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Thomas with a father Nathaniel is at 4, West End, Droylsden, Ashton under Lyne in 1861
RG9/2988 f23 p1
1891 has his place of birth as Newton Heath living at 53, Parker Street, Bradford cum Beswick,
RG12/3257 f21 p35
Is this for Frederick?
No, Thomas and Mary
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Mary Jane Hibbert death Manchester Jun 1868 age 20.
So that could be his first wife.
Doesn't help with a birth for Frederick but hopefully will sort the marriages/wives out.
That is very possible.
Any information is useful information :)
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There is also a Frances Hibbert born and died 1867 Manchester with mothers name Stevenson.
Could be theirs.
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There is also a Frances Hibbert born and died 1867 Manchester with mothers name Stevenson.
Could be theirs.
Thanks I will follow this up.
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Both 1851/61 census name Nathaniel as Thomas's father.
SS
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There is also a Frances Hibbert born and died 1867 Manchester with mothers name Stevenson.
Could be theirs.
Thanks I will follow this up.
Baptism record is from the same church that his children with Riley are baptised in.
21 July 1867 baptism took place
Living in George St and he is a labourer.
Mother: Mary Jane.
Very possible
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You can't help feeling Mary Jane Stephenson was his mother (Frederick) can you but ?
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Baptism record is from the same church that his children with Riley are baptised in.
No doubt you have already looked back to the time Frederick was born for a baptism there.
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You can't help feeling Mary Jane Stephenson was his mother (Frederick) can you but ?
My gut is telling me it’s correct but I just can’t understand why he would put Germany.
I just need that little bit of evidence to put my mind at ease
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Yes the Germany bit is a real curve ball. Could be a mistake by the enumerator and it was meant for another entry but impossible to say.
Maybe he just wasn't registered which is frustrating. I have a birth from 1864 with no registration.
I don't believe there were fines for not registering until later.
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Baptism record is from the same church that his children with Riley are baptised in.
No doubt you have already looked back to the time Frederick was born for a baptism there.
We must be in sync I am doing it as we speak. My brain is getting tired so it’s taking me a while. Way to late well early to be doing this but it’s got me curious :D
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On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Relationships on the census are how they are related to the head of the household, ie Thomas
Do you have the marriage certificate to Mary
I have someone sending a copy over when they find it, however I think it may says widower which is where people have Mary Jane Stephenson. But I am just guessing
Censuses don’t show the mother’s name.
On the marriage of Thomas Hibbert and Mary Jane Stephenson, he is 21 yrs and a bachelor and she is 19 yrs and a spinster.
Their residences are given as Bradford (Manchester).
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There is also a Frances Hibbert born and died 1867 Manchester with mothers name Stevenson.
Could be theirs.
Thanks I will follow this up.
Baptism record is from the same church that his children with Riley are baptised in.
21 July 1867 baptism took place
Living in George St and he is a labourer.
Mother: Mary Jane.
Very possible
No luck with the baptism record for Frederick I looked 1864-1866.
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On both censuses it states that his father is Thomas Hibbert and mother Mary Hibbert nee Riley.
Relationships on the census are how they are related to the head of the household, ie Thomas
Do you have the marriage certificate to Mary
I have someone sending a copy over when they find it, however I think it may says widower which is where people have Mary Jane Stephenson. But I am just guessing
I have received a copy -
Married 24 Oct 1868 Parish Church Drolysden, Lancashire, England
Thomas Hibbert 22 Widower Father Nathaniel (b. abt 1846)
Mary Riley 20 Spinster (b. abt 1848)
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So, if Frederick is the son of Mary Jane Stephenson and Thomas Hibbert, one could assume that he was born out of wedlock as they did not get married until 24 December 1866, unless he was born between then and the new year, which is possible, therefore his birth would be registered in 1867.
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If the Frances baptism you found 21 July 1867 was theirs then there wouldn't have been time for her to have had another child after Frederick (if he was born after they married I mean)