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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Wexflyer on Thursday 02 May 24 09:51 BST (UK)
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Here is an example, but I have seen many others.
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It was a custom that some older folks still hold today.
Women & men would attend the funeral service at home, or at chapel, but only the men would go graveside. Normally the women would prepare the wake.
Not many adere to the tradition today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/waleshistory/2010/10/a_good_welsh_funeral.html
Cas
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My friends father died in 1976 & it was a "men only" funeral. There didn't seem to be any particular reason as he wasn't a member of any society etc.
I remember finding it rather odd that his widow & only child stayed at home with other female relatives
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I have not come across that wording in a Scottish funeral notice, but it was also the custom here for men only to attend the actual burial. The first time women in my family followed the coffin to the graveyard was when my grandfather died in 1965.
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I experienced this on the Scottish island of Mull many years ago. A funeral procession of men made its way through the town, winding its way up a hill to the church and graveyard. Many houses had curtains drawn at the windows. I don't know at what point women were involved in the funeral, as we didn't follow the procession. The island was very set in its ways then and women were not allowed in pubs at that time. I expect things have changed a lot by now.
Things like this always make me wonder why men are so afraid (?) of women that they put so many limitations on their behaviour. But that's another topic...
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When my mother-in-law died in 1990 the custom was to have the service at home then the men proceeded to the grave with the coffin. As soon as they left the women made themselves a cup of tea then prepared food which was served to the men when they returned. The food was either a complete sit down dinner or sandwiches, scones & buns served with tea.
It was a little while later that I remember hearing of women at the graveside (the two daughters of the dead woman)- it was quite uncommon.
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I searched BNA for "cemetery gentlemen only". The most recent hits are for 1999 and seem to correspond to four different funerals in that year, all in South Wales (the newspapers are the South Wales Echo and the South Wales Daily Post).
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One branch of my Mum's family in Somerset had this tradition as well - no women at the graveside, to the point that I think even quite a late 20th C funeral observed (I remember my Mum being relieved at not having to go). I'm not sure why, because I don't think it was a widespread thing there and they weren't the branch that originally came from Wales, either.
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Experienced this in 2005 in Scotland. Tradition.
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Visiting my in-laws in Yorkshire in 1970s, reading the local newspaper and many death announcements had "men only" funerals.
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I found the same thing for my late Uncle’s funeral announcement in Swansea in 1930. It just seems to have been the custom in Wales.
Romilly
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Quare folk over there in Wales!
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Still quite common when I lived in Bargoed, Mid Glamorgan, Wales in 1980-1990.
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The requirement for a funeral when I was young was that tongue sandwiches were served. Widows wore "widows weeds", which meant that they wore dark mourning clothes for at least one year.
The other custom regarding women was new mothers had to be "churched" before they started visiting people again. One of my mother's cousins (born early 1900s) recounted how she had knocked on the door of an aunt to show her her baby, but instead of her aunt welcoming her she was vigorous in telling her to get off her doorstep and not come back until she'd been cleansed at church.
Regarding adoption in earlier centuries. I have a widowed mother of several young children who married again. Her new husband didn't want the youngsters of the previous husband in his newly acquired house and demanded they be sent to live with paternal relatives up in Yorkshire.. The document is signed by a few named men who guaranteed to safely take the children to their paternal relatives up in Yorkshire.
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Experienced this in 2005 in Scotland. Tradition.
Perhaps it has its roots in days when a coffin might have to be carried a long distance to a church over a 'corpse road' ? Quite likely in rural Wales or Scotland, where parishes were large, hilly and sparsely populated.
On the other hand, an anecdote from industrial south Wales (woman speaking, Welsh accent) : "not a good funeral, only a cup of tea and a sandwich".
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Widows wore "widows weeds", which meant that they wore dark mourning clothes for at least one year.
As many still do in Mediterranean countries, for the rest of their lives.
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Tradition
Women stayed at the house
I remember it with my husband's great aunt's funeral in 2000 (born 1911)- we both went to the house with her coffin in the front room for the service, but only the men were allowed to go to the internment, apparently it was her wish
My husband remembers the same for her brother (his great grandfather) funeral in the 1980s
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Widows wore "widows weeds", which meant that they wore dark mourning clothes for at least one year.
As many still do in Mediterranean countries, for the rest of their lives.
My paternal grandmother wore widows weeds from the time my grandfather died in 1928 to the day she died in 1942. As most things were rationed in WWII, I have no idea how she managed it.
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My paternal grandmother wore widows weeds from the time my grandfather died in 1928 to the day she died in 1942. As most things were rationed in WWII, I have no idea how she managed it.
She probably didn't buy many new clothes. Years ago it was fairly common to dye clothing black when going into mourning and perhaps she did this when her husband died or since it was pre-rationing she did purchase some new items of clothing in black.
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Rena, yes- Churching ,my mother in law would not let me into her house , we had gone shopping with the new baby in his pram, we intended calling as we passed that way.
Did our shopping and called in the return journey.
I had underestimated how tired I was, so when she would not let me in the house ,my husband said I needed to sit down, so a chair was brought to the door- the back door as that was used more than the front ?
It started to rain and honestly she kindly brought out her umbrella for me!!!
It was a superstition still strongly held as late as 1956!
Churching was seen as like the ritual cleansing Jewish women had to have, but was also transferred to Christian women.
We had sinned ! Nothing about men though! ::)
Another superstition was a baby would not gain weight or thrive until it was Baptised!!!
Well my first baby gained twelve ounces the first week .
Utter Rubbish !
Viktoria.
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"Utter Rubbish !"
Well, that's religion for you.
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"Utter Rubbish !"
Well, that's religion for you.
And, as Viktoria suggests, much of religion beyond historical facts recorded in holy books, becomes superstition when ritualised. My belief is that most religion originated as attempts to explain unusual or extraordinary phenomena. Science has revealed causes for many such things, so most people are much less superstitious now. Sadly a good deal persists as culture wars rather than proper 'religion'.
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No Erato ,that is not the whole picture by any means .
Just one aspect where superstition is meant as religious observance .
So much help and aid is given through religion ,also secular societies of course.
People not understanding always the profound beliefs will seek other ways
so the need for physical things like statues etc come in .
That was easier than praying to what? Something you can not see or hear or touch?
Something physical to worship was easier but the good intention was and is always there.
Our Christian principles are often based on the Laws of Judaism, but delve into those and you get the good sense necessary for example in nomadic desert peoples, as were Jews originally, certain food laws made very good sense, also the personal hygiene laws.
Almost every religion has had women as second class, but the Jewish laws do give consideration to women and their specific needs lacking in other religions.
A complex subject and my “ Rubbish “ was about superstitions being seen as religious rules through misinterpretation .
A woman needs time to recover after childbirth ,some men might not be considerate ,but tell them something will be to their disadvantage and they will allow their wife time to recover .
Easy when they have more than one as did many Old Testament characters.
We could go on for years about this subject but my “rubbish “ was about religious observance taking precedence over kindness and consideration.
But I never forget ,my mother in law did bring me an umbrella!
Viktoria.