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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Wiltshire => Topic started by: Motueka Margaret on Sunday 28 April 24 11:02 BST (UK)

Title: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Sunday 28 April 24 11:02 BST (UK)
Hoping someone can help please. I am enclosing my GG Grandparent's Marriage Certificate. They were married in Bradford, the month, they emigrated on the ' Bolton' to Nelson, NZ
John Mortimer's father is John - Hair cutter? & Caroline Nichols father is Andrew- Painter & Glazier.
I have found John in the 1841 census? living with Matthew & Ann Gerrish & family in Holt. Interesting that some of the Gerrish children emigrated later to Nelson, NZ
I haven't been able to locate Caroline Nichols or her father Andrew in the 1841 census, or John's father.
On their Death Certificates - John born in Bath, Somerset and Caroline in Suffolk.
Any help would be very much appreciated. regards, Margaret, NZ
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: ShaunJ on Sunday 28 April 24 11:24 BST (UK)
I am wondering if that's "stone cutter" rather than  "hair cutter"
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Vance Mead on Sunday 28 April 24 11:28 BST (UK)
The H is the same as in Holt, and the dot on the i is a bit to the right. So I'd said Hair.

I'm not sure why he wouldn't have been called a barber, except for one possibility: hair was also used for a coarse cloth, haircloth or sackcloth. So perhaps he was a coarse cloth cutter?
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: KGarrad on Sunday 28 April 24 11:35 BST (UK)
I agree with Hair Cutter - especially as Caroline's occupation is Barber?
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 11:37 BST (UK)
One of the Gerrish children - just checking MMN  :-\
GERRISH, KEZIAH       mmn FERRIS 
GRO Reference: 1838  Dec Quarter in THE BRADFORD UNION  Volume 08  Page 257
..

The witness John Mortimer is possibly his father
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Sunday 28 April 24 11:52 BST (UK)
Thank you Shaun J and Vance - I wondered if father John had something to do with the cloth industry
Thank you K Garrad - I think Caroline's occupation is Burler - which is associated with the cloth industry. Also thank you Rosie 99  re the witness to Keziah Gerrish marriage.  regards, Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 11:52 BST (UK)
Carolines occupation has been transcribed as Burler  :-\

1. : one that removes loose threads, knots, and other imperfections from cloth.
2. : one that inspects rugs before the finishing process, mends dropped stitches on the back, and pulls matching yarn into spots where tufts are missing or shearing is uneven.

ADDED Got red message but posted anyway  ;D
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Sunday 28 April 24 16:38 BST (UK)
?  Could be a connection

Family Search

Marriage at Warminster, Wiltshire (12 miles from Holt)


17 July 1837

Thomas NICHOLLS - aged 24 c 1813

Occupation: Painter & Glazier

father's name: Andrew M P NICHOLLS

Occupation: Painter & Glazier


Sarah TWYFORD aged 21, residence place: Warner

c 1816 - single - occupation: WEAVER

Spouse father's name: John TWYFORD, occupation: Weaver


etc etc.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 17:07 BST (UK)
I wondered about Andrew Michael Penhall Nicholls earlier, he married at Bradford on Avon to Eliza Hazard on 4th Feb 1812.

ADDED Michael Thomas Nicholls was born February 1813, parents Andrew Michael & Eliza Nicholls at Bradford
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 17:29 BST (UK)
Just posting in case  :)
Michael Penhall Nicholls is mentioned in the London Gazette in 1822
-formerly of Wells, Somerset and late of Bradford, Wiltshire - shopkeeper, painter & glazier

He is living in Bradford on Avon in 1841
H0107/1166 bk8 f36 p13
Michael P Nicholls - 45 - Glazier - not born in county
John 14
Mary 12
plus
Emily & Thomas Barrett and 1 yr old George Barrett (Added Surname is Barnett on marriage, see next post)

ADDED
Death Mar 1840
NICHOLLS   Eliza    age 47   
Bradford Union   8   176
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: osprey on Sunday 28 April 24 18:01 BST (UK)
marriage reg
Emily Eliza Nicholls march qtr 1839 Bradford on Avon vol 8 pg 349 to Thomas Barnett
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 18:10 BST (UK)
Good find Osprey,  It does look like Barrett on the census  :)
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Sunday 28 April 24 18:15 BST (UK)
I wonder if they all went to NZ  :-\
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: osprey on Sunday 28 April 24 18:29 BST (UK)
Emily may have died?

Emily Barnett 26 sept qtr 1841 Bradford vol 8 pg 163

Also
Michael Thomas Nicholls 36 march qtr 1850 Frome vol 10 pg 330

Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: osprey on Sunday 28 April 24 18:44 BST (UK)
The baptism of Michael Thomas Nicholls was non-conformist

Burial 8 Aug 1841 Countess of Huntingdon Chapel, Bearfield - Emily Barnett 26
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Sunday 28 April 24 20:55 BST (UK)
Capetown, Osprey and Rosie 99 - that is amazing what you have found on the Nicholls & Barretts. My Great Grandmother- the eldest child of John and Caroline  born in NZ was named Emily Eliza. I am sure you have nailed it. Thank you. Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Monday 29 April 24 08:14 BST (UK)
Googling on the 'net'

Pigot's & Co's Trade Directory 1830 Wiltshire


A few websites

Bradford on Avon Museum Pigot's Commercial Directory 1830


(If you Google, Woolley Street, Bradford Upon Avon there are some old ‘coloured’ photos dated 1850 etc.)



Under: Painters, plumbers, glaziers

NICHOLLS, Michael, Woolley Street


At least it shows Michael was there in 1830.

===

AUCTIONEERS

Nicholls, Samuel, near the Bridge

Also under the Heading: Miscellaneous is:

GERRISH, James, Hackney Master, Mill Street.

Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Monday 29 April 24 09:55 BST (UK)
Thank you Capetown for these sites. Very interesting, regards, Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: rosie99 on Monday 29 April 24 17:32 BST (UK)
Michael was listed in 1842  :-\
Listed under Painters and Glaziers for Bradford and Neighbourhoods.
Ref: J. Pigot, Commercial Directory.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Monday 29 April 24 18:15 BST (UK)
Wiltshire OPC Project

Pilot’s & Co Directory Extract 1822 Bradford on Avon

NICHOLLS Elizabeth :  Linen Draper &c. Pippet Street

NICHOLLS Michael P : Plumber & Glazier.  Coppice Street

NICHOLLS Samuel :  Cabinet Maker & Upholsterer.  Near the Bridge
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Tuesday 30 April 24 05:42 BST (UK)
Thanks so much  Rosie99 & Capetown. It looks like Michael Andrew P. Nicholls was listed at Bradford  between 1820 - 1842.  regards, Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Tuesday 30 April 24 08:29 BST (UK)
? Was there any witnesses to the marriage of Andrew Michael Penhall NICHOLLS to Eliza HAZARD 4 February 1812.

The surname PENHALL appears to be originated from the Village of PENHALE in Cornwall.


-----

Had a quick check for any HAZARD Wills on the National Archives

Just Google: A2a 

This takes you to the website DISCOVERY/THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES - search

Interesting, there is a Will of RICHARD HAZARD otherwise HARFORD of Bradford, Wiltshire - dated 4 September 1837.

I'm registered with the National Archives - and if you do, you can download the Will for free.

----

I've had a quick look at the Will, and Richard appears to be unmarried, and just lists a few names including a Richard HAZARD otherwise HARFORD of London.

----

What it does show, is that HALFORD appears to be an Alias for HAZARD.

There are a number of HARFORDS's on the 1841 census Bradford Upon Avon.

In my Wiltshire line, I do have an Alias surname, which went on for a number of generations.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Tuesday 30 April 24 09:31 BST (UK)
Here is the marriage - I can't make out the witnesses's names
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Tuesday 30 April 24 09:42 BST (UK)
Can see they married by Licence.  A Licence and also a (Bond, which is required) should give more details of their ages, occupations etc.  All Gloucestershire Licences have been transcribed by The Forest of Dean Family History Forum and these are invaluable. 

I’ve got a copy Wiltshire Bond when my x Grandparents married in Wootton Bassett.

Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Tuesday 30 April 24 10:21 BST (UK)
Where would I get a License and Bond from?   Also about The National Archives Discovery - no I am not registered. I used to be able to download through Discovery  through being a member of the NZSG but I am not a member now.  Thanks for your help. I have been trying to look for the children listed on the 1841 census - John 14 and Mary Nicholls 12 both born in county, but no luck. Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Tuesday 30 April 24 10:31 BST (UK)
To use the National Archives which is based in LONDON

Just Google:

a2A

-----

Up comes a list of a few website.......

About 4 websites down is:

Discovery | The National Archives


This will take you straight to the heading:

Explore the catalogue



---

Or use this link.

The National Archives - website

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


----


As regards Licences/Bonds.

Some Counties are on various websites.

I did look at The Wiltshire Family History website - who do have a surname list of Licences/Bonds.  Couldn't see Nicholls etc.

Sometimes the couple got the Licences in another County.  Perhaps another Contributor can advise you.  A copy must be 'somewhere' and it really would be helpful in your research.  Normally Banns had to read in the Church for some weeks, this was a speedy way round or to marry in another County.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Wednesday 01 May 24 17:04 BST (UK)
You were right Capetown about Michael Andrew Nicholls could be born in Cornwall. I found him  in the 1851 census at Holt Cottage, Box Wilts with his son William and wife Sophia - Michael, Father wdr. 60 yrs Painter & Glazier born Penzance, Cornwall.  Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Wednesday 01 May 24 17:52 BST (UK)
On Family Search (and can see original marriage entry) there is

A marriage at St Austell, Cornwall

22 February 1784

between James NICOLLS or NICHOLOS
to
Elizabeth PENHALL

witnesses

Thomas PENHALL and John JOLYAN?


----

My Mum's side of the family from Gloucestershire, the male line,  carried a female surname, as one of their names,  for  over 150 years.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Wednesday 01 May 24 23:27 BST (UK)
That looks promising. I will look into it. Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Sikes on Wednesday 12 June 24 16:56 BST (UK)
On their Death Certificates - John born in Bath, Somerset and Caroline in Suffolk.
Any help would be very much appreciated. regards, Margaret, NZ
On Ancestry, there is a John Mortimer baptised 2 Mar 1800 Saint James,Bath,Somerset,England. Father William and mother Elizabeth. If I've got the right John fits with: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/205969840/john-william-mortimer

Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Thursday 13 June 24 03:52 BST (UK)
Thanks Sikes, Yes, this is the burial site for John  at the  Omaka Cemetery, Blenheim, NZ.  On John and Caroline's Marriage Certificate  his father is John.  I haven't much hope of getting any further with John. regards, Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Thursday 13 June 24 16:54 BST (UK)
?

General Register Office

MORTIMER John aged 84

GRO Reference :  1852 S Qtr Bradford, Wilts & Somerset :

As the year is 1852 and John is aged 84 (c1768)

? Possibly too old for the father of John.

? Is this John on the 1851 census anywhere.


Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 13 June 24 19:26 BST (UK)
?

General Register Office

MORTIMER John aged 84

GRO Reference :  1852 S Qtr Bradford, Wilts & Somerset :

As the year is 1852 and John is aged 84 (c1768)

? Possibly too old for the father of John.

? Is this John on the 1851 census anywhere.

That will be Bradford-on-Avon, Wiltshire. Not far from Bath, Somerset.
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Friday 14 June 24 03:52 BST (UK)
Thank you Capetown and K Garrad
On Ancestry- John Mortimer D 17.8.1752 Broughton Gifford, Wilts aged 84
In 1851 census - Common, Broughton Gifford - John visitor 83 Wdr Weaver Born Broughton Gifford with son William 49 Weaver and wife Susannah 46 & family
1841- Broughton Gifford- John 70 yrs with William & Susannah & family
In FT on Ancestry - William marr 1824 Susanna Wakely.
William's  father - John 1767-1852 , Mother Rebecca Helps 1768-1837
I will look into this family later - I have an eye infection, so not able to focus at moment.  Many thanks, Margaret
Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Capetown on Saturday 15 June 24 21:59 BST (UK)
BMD Registers

The Official Non-Conformist and Non-Parichial BMD Service

In Association with the National Archives

http://www.bmdregisters.co.uk

Forename:  William
Surname: NICHOLLS



Father:  Andrew Nicholls

Year : 1833
Baptism :  Penzance, Cornwall
Recordset: RG4/0107

Bible Christian’s At the Penzance Circuit, Cornwall

——



Michael Thomas NICHOLLS
Father:  Andrew NICHOLLS

1813, Bradford, Wiltshire.

Morgan Hill Independent Chapel in Bradford, Wiltshire


Looks as though you have to purchase credits.

Title: Re: Mortimer
Post by: Motueka Margaret on Sunday 16 June 24 02:56 BST (UK)
Thank you Capetown for this site - looks interesting. Margaret