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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Topic started by: brigidmac on Friday 26 April 24 12:19 BST (UK)

Title: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 26 April 24 12:19 BST (UK)
I posted on Irish board looking for ancestors of Frances Gertrude Fullager because thats where she was born in Feb 1887

But it looks like neither parent was from Ireland

Many details on their marriage certificate are made up . June 1887

Edge hill parish of west derby
Name :  George Daniel Mansfield
age 22 greengrocer :
father John MANSFIELD a grocer


Next sighting of the couple is 26th August
Criminal record in 1889 for larceny .he  is plain George Mansfield  . Acquitted she is found guilty

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=882066.msg7548207#msg754820

No sightings of a George with middle name Daniel elsewhere

I will ask admin to merge topics and leave on England board .

 Have correct information about his wife and daughter. Thanks to rootschatters

Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: Milliepede on Friday 26 April 24 15:17 BST (UK)
Born in 1887 or married in 1887?

Guessing you haven't found her on census as a child.
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 26 April 24 16:13 BST (UK)
Frances was born in Ireland in February 1887 and  is on subsequent censuses in England with her grandmother then with her first and second husbands

The complicated trail is on the attached link see reply 6


It's her father "George Daniel MANSFIELD"  who can't be found after 1889
Or before 1887 when he had baby with Alice WALDREN alias Frances real name Alice BARROW
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: Ashtone on Friday 26 April 24 16:25 BST (UK)
deleted
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 26 April 24 16:39 BST (UK)
Yes the father of Frances Mansfield George is listed as a grocers assistant I've posted a clip of document at start of other topic

The couple are listed as married and living at 6 Montgomery st. Dublin point Cork

That is consistent with profession listed on marriage
Whitfield st. I. West derby Lancashire
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 26 April 24 19:28 BST (UK)

 I've tried looking on ancestry searches   using profession of grocer  with just surname Mansfield and there are none coming up in the Liverpool area .




Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 27 April 24 13:04 BST (UK)
Here's George's signature from marriage record
 
Looks like it was originally George D Mansfield and someone has added ..aniel afterwards .

I also checked out the witness George Linacre ...he loved at Highgate street and was a painter decorated ...can't find any family links to any Mansfield s
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 30 April 24 13:59 BST (UK)
Coming back to this
Although middle name has been transcribed by ancestry as Daniel
Could it actually be David

Not found any George David or David george Mansfield in UK either
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 30 April 24 19:14 BST (UK)
DNA match to a descendant of Louisa Mansfield 1852  who was a domestic servant in 1871
Father was Edward MANSFIELD
Who married Ann BARKER 1811- 1853 and then her sister Louisa BARKER 1826-1892;


 Louisa 1852 is rather young to be the mother of George D but  he could be descended from her sister Elizabeth a single mother Elizabeth Mansfield
*b 1846 who was a domestic servant too in 1861 then I lose sight of her
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: Ashtone on Tuesday 30 April 24 19:29 BST (UK)
Elizabeth Mansfield b 1846 who was a domestic servant too in 1861 then I lose sight of her

1871 census --
There's an Elizabeth Mansfield (born 1843 Liverpool) in Everton. She's an unmarried "small wares dealer".
No one else in the household. Address: 89 Prince Edwin Street, Everton
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 30 April 24 19:38 BST (UK)
Thank you
I'm on a roll now as the family she was working for in 1861 for  William SHENTON
* He had sons John age 15 & William aged 10

There are 3 DNA matches to people with SHENTON surnames
I think this is worth following up

Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Wednesday 01 May 24 08:36 BST (UK)
Ashton i can't find the census 1871 on ancestry maybe it's mistranscribed .
It's a possibility tho a few years older .

The SHENTON lead didn't pan out either .

Back to the drawing board
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 May 24 10:52 BST (UK)
His wife was living with John Davis as married from 1901  but they didn't actually marry until 1928

So maybe that's when George D Mansfield died
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Friday 03 May 24 15:05 BST (UK)
Up date as the other topic has not been moved to English boards & the topics have not been merged

From a DNA match I believe that George's grandparents are Edward MANSFIELD 1810-1882
& His first wife Ann Barker
8 children 3 girls survived to adult hood Mary 1834  Elizabeth 1846 Louisa 1852  ( too young to be George Mansfield s father but DNA match is thru her daughter Ruby KEARY .

Edward married Ann's sister Louisa BARKER in 1853 and had 6 more
children)

Mary Mansfield is age 7 on 1841

Elizabeth age 5 with family in 1851
Probably domestic servant with SHENTON family 1861 in Everton.
& Maybe in Everton alone ass a small trades dealer in 1871

I.presume one of them is George s mother

Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Saturday 04 May 24 22:09 BST (UK)
There is a DNA link to  connection to Frances Mansfield B 1858 (maybe in India)
Who lived in Scotland

The locations don't connect but Frances is a name used by descendants .

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=882421.msg7552432#msg7552432.





Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Sunday 05 May 24 01:10 BST (UK)
Found a George Mansfield age 5 born India middle initial hard to decipher ... ancestry says P  could be something else

Living with widowed  grandmother
Mary Coxe in Hove Sussex

Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: Dundee on Monday 06 May 24 13:13 BST (UK)
Mary Elizabeth COX of 46 Ventnor Villas died in 1879.  Her headstone at St Andrew's Old Church (since removed) stated that she was the widow of Major George COX of the Bengal Army.

Administration of her will was to Claudine Cordelia Emma SCOTT, daughter, and wife of Archibald Campbell SCOTT of Stanley Villa, Teddington, Middlesex.

Archibald died soon after and Claudine (born c1850 India) and her children are in Teddington in 1881.  They married in Sussex in 1867.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 06 May 24 14:35 BST (UK)
Thanks ;
another daughter Louisa Carolina Alberta Cox married William Henry CRAWFORD in 1886 then BURNETT

I've found a tree on ancestry where George COXE and Mary Elizabeth PROUD had 3 other daughters too

Married Surnames HARRIS .Holberton Phillips

Their son married Elizabeth OWENS
So George MANSFIELD doesn't seem to be a grandchild of Mary Coxe

Several of the grandchildren were in school in England 1851 + 1861


Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: Dundee on Monday 06 May 24 22:42 BST (UK)
I couldn't find a MANSFIELD connection either.  Perhaps her will might be worth a look if she was his full time guardian.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Monday 06 May 24 23:19 BST (UK)
Found the connection to that family
The little boy with his grandmother was probably George Mansfield Phillips .B 1865
Son of Mary Frances or Frances Mary Coxe or Cox 1843 -1865 born & died in India & James Phillips 1844

He was at school in Derbyshire age 15 in 1881
& Married *Caroline Woodsell in India in 1898

So unlikely to be same person as George Daniel Mansfield ??
Title: Re: Did George Daniel MANSFIELD really exist
Post by: brigidmac on Tuesday 27 January 26 13:04 GMT (UK)
Could anyone find who was living at

 6 montgomery street Dublin

 in 1891 and on  electoral rolls around 1897

There must have been a reason for the couple to go to Ireland to have or just to register their baby .

Away from Liverpool where they were known to avoid scandle but why choose that destination unless they had friends or family .

Baby was brought up by Alices mother in

4 montbs before they married