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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: sunnylew on Friday 26 April 24 11:59 BST (UK)

Title: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: sunnylew on Friday 26 April 24 11:59 BST (UK)
I hope somebody can help me with the following Eyre of 1298.

I'm most interested in the last sentence or so, which seems to refer to "St Mary of Hedersete" which I assume to be a church. This would be incredibly interesting to me, as the Church there has been dedicated to St Remigius since at least the 14th century.

I think this may be right, but I'd love to have a confirmation before I hang my hat on this discovery.

I believe the last sentence is:

"Et Robertus po lo suo sancti Marie de Hedersete in placito predicto."

I've been using ChatGPT to make intelligent guesses on translation of the readout from an Ai transcription program (after letting it know that there would be transcription errors and asking it to try its best). It gave me:

"And Robert upholds his [claim] of Saint Mary of Hethersett in the aforementioned plea."

The original image is on AALT:

http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/JUST1/JUST1no1311/bJUST1no1311dorses/IMG_6836.htm

Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: Vance Mead on Friday 26 April 24 12:21 BST (UK)
Po lo suo (ponit loco suo) is a standard phrase that means to have an attorney representing him in this case.

I think instead of St it may be Sr or Sir. Not sure about the Mone name.
Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: Watson on Friday 26 April 24 12:36 BST (UK)
Is it "Simone de Hedersete"?
Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: Vance Mead on Friday 26 April 24 12:39 BST (UK)
It could be Simone.

Here are the first couple lines:
The assize comes to determine if Adam Por(?) of Wymondham, brother of Henry the Chamberlayn and brother of Adam the Sumoner has unjustly disseised / dispossessed Robert of Tacoshale of his free tenement in Wymondham

Edit:
Yes, Simon de Hedersete, a lawyer and justice in East Anglia.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_dss=range&_ro=any&_q=%22Simon+de+Hedersete%22
Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: Watson on Friday 26 April 24 13:19 BST (UK)
Presumably, Simonem (accusative), following the verb ponit.
Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: Bookbox on Friday 26 April 24 18:46 BST (UK)
Yes, it is Simonem. The letter i is clearly dotted, and the m is suspended. Sorry to disappoint.
Title: Re: Help with Latin 13th Century Eyre
Post by: sunnylew on Saturday 27 April 24 10:36 BST (UK)
Thank you all.

I'm glad I ran it past you, as I was pretty sure St Mary's was a done deal :)

Once you point it out it's hard to see how I came up with St Mary in the first place. I know Simon fairly well, so it's still some good information. He held the manor next door to both Hethersett and Wymondham, (which this particular case is about).