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Research in Other Countries => Europe => Topic started by: Tjapaltjarri on Tuesday 23 April 24 12:22 BST (UK)
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I am looking for help with locating the final resting place of this seaman.
I am pretty sure I know who he was but proving it is another matter. I contacted the Antwerp City Archives but they were unable to help in any way with evidence for this death so I am interested in whether there would have been a post mortem and whether a record for this exists? Would there be a Police record? What was the practice for dealing with these incidents, Burial by the local authority after a period of time as in UK or something else? Would a death certificate have been issued? Are there cemetery records for this period which could be searched by a Belgium researcher and how might one find such a person?
The man's remains were discovered at the bottom of the ship's water tank along with empty whisky bottles !
So may unanswered questions - sorry.
Many thanks for any light you can shed on this matter,
Howdie
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You don’t give any indication as to his nationality, was he Belgian or British, if British have you checked to see if the death was recorded by the British Consulate. If so you should be able it obtain a British death certificate.
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Yes, each town or city has a Consul , often Belgian but always English speaking,also the Ambassador would be in Brussels .You might try The Seaman’s Mission, Antwerp, there was one in Gent as it was an inland port .
Hope you have some success.
Viktoria.
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You don’t give any indication as to his nationality, was he Belgian or British, if British have you checked to see if the death was recorded by the British Consulate. If so you should be able it obtain a British death certificate.
Thanks for this idea. The vessel was British registered but the seamen were not necessarily British is my understanding. So I would need to look and see if there was a British Death Certificate issued in respect of this unknown seaman likely sometime between February 1956 (if they established that the death was likely to have been several months earlier) and later into 1957 if there was a delay in getting it registered. Would it be amongst the Deaths at Sea or in the British deaths registered abroad? Are these available for online searching please?
Many thanks,
Howdie
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https://search.findmypast.co.uk/search-world-records/british-armed-forces-and-overseas-deaths-and-burials
You can search here with place = a ship.
There are various deaths with location as "Levenpool", none that fit.
There are three deaths for Male Unknown in 1956-1960, none that fit.
Other sources who might help (or at least be able to tell you how this death would have been handled)
RMG:
https://www.rmg.co.uk/collections/research-guides/research-guide-c1-merchant-navy-tracing-people-crew-lists-agreements
or the maritime history archive in Canada who hold a lot of records for British registered ships:
https://mha.mun.ca/mha/
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As already stated there appears to be no death at sea registered for that ship at that time.
There is no Ship's Official Logbook for LEVENPOOL official number 168941 indexed at the MHA in Canada which is where the vast majority of logbooks are held for this era. That may not be a problem however as most are not indexed for this time but are held off site and would need to be searched by their staff.
So hopefully they will have a logbook and if so the Master would have noted in the narrative section of the log what happened. Even if no logbook has survived they will probably still have the Crew Agreement which in itself would indicate who was discharged dead.
You should email them but make sure you ask for LEVENPOOL official numnber 168941 and the dates you need. They are very helpful but there will be a charge for any documents they send to you. I am not sure of their basic costs.
MHA Canada contact details for research: mhares@mun.ca
Regards
Hugh
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A huge thank you for all your replies. I will pass the information on to the family to see if they wish to pursue the matter. Where is Poirot when you need him ??. There must have been some forensic.
I read an account on the Merchant Seaman's group of a Captain sprinkling ashes onto the ocean and this might be the best way to think of it but wondering if there is a register of cremations in Antwerp.
Howdie
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Nothing in Deaths at Sea, nothing in contemporary newspapers - what's the provenance of the story? The Levenpool would only have been in Antwerp briefly before continuing on to its final destination Rotterdam (arrived January 7h 1957).
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Provenance is that it came from merchant-navy net in a poat from 'Brian' regarding the worst trip he was ever on.
post and follow-up post :-
Ivan,
I was with the Levenpool in Antwerp in December 1956, met a mate of mine, they had found a dead body in the water tanks, and had all broken out in scabs and bad guts. They were all trying to get paid off, she was on the Continent to South America run for two years. I guess there was always someone else worse off.
Cheers, Brian[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately it happens, remember when I used to survey tanks and double bottoms (now now lads not that type) it was always prudent to have someone with you, but not always possible, these were always moments of apprehension, especially doing DB's afloat, as if some silly bugger ran into you, you had no chance. I am small in stature and sometimes you had to reverse all the way back to the manhole through the lightening holes. How the big guys managed I do not know because even for me on the smaller ships it was difficult. Surveying double bottoms in the Waalhaven in December and January was not my favourite scenario, it was bluddy cold! It is easy to be forgotten when you are down there and once they've put the manhole cover in place, even without bolting, your days are numbered. I used to tow a heaving line behind me, but some clever barsteward would invariably haul it out in case it fouled the suction pipes, it was very difficult to win, but I'm still here
What I want to know is why did they always send a deaf seaman to shout "anybody inside"
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So it's a second-hand hearsay story.
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Possibly, but that is not the way it comes across to me.
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The sole source for this story appears to be "Captain Kong" on the merchant-navy.net forum, who heard it from a friend:
"I went ashore (in Antwerp) at 1pm and at the first bar stopped for a beer. Inside was a lad I had sailed with on the `Empress of Scotland` 18 months earlier.
He was on a Ropner boat, the `Levenpool`, a Fort boat; they were trying to get paid off. They were on a two-year voyage, coal from the Continent to Buenos Aires and grain back to the Continent.
They had all began to break out in scabs and boils with bad guts. They had complained about the water, which was pumped up from the after peak and told the tank was cleaned and cement washed in dry dock in Glasgow nine months earlier. They had the Union man over from London and eventually got the tank drained and then the manhole cover was unbolted. Inside they found the skeletal remains of a man and some empty whisky bottles. It was presumed that the man who cleaned it also had a few whiskies and flaked out inside. When the men shouted inside if anyone was there, no answer, then they battened down… When it was filled up he must have drowned and they had been drinking this contaminated water for nine months. So they were hoping to get paid off.
My mate was gulping ale down as fast as he could, trying to wash the taste of the ships water away. I was keeping up with him and eventually Oblivion. I remember nothing until I woke up at sea bound for London. Don’t remember going back on board or anything."
https://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/swinging-the-lamp/43993-voyage-dunedin-star.html
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The Americans had been worried that the Levenpool had a Russian atom bomb aboard which would be detonated in Honolulu. That made the local newspaper in Tynemouth in December 1956.
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/image-viewer?issue=BL%2F0002077%2F19561210&page=11&article=084&stringtohighlight=levenpool
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Amazing Shaun. That puts a very different slant on things and makes it even more likely that the skeletal remains were those of my friend's uncle, A young man of just 23 who came from a fishing/crofting family in South Uist. As a child he was caught up in the "salvaging of the SS Politician" that grounded off Eriskay ! The source of the film "Whisky Galore"
There are a number of things that don't match between that account and the one I originally read more than 10 years ago and it raises the question of where the death would have been registered and whether the Glasgow branch of the BSU retains records and correspondence going back that far. If the tank was cleaned and drained in Hull it seems more likely the skeletal remains were discovered there and there may be records from the Port Health Officer. (a former senior colleague of mine back in the early 1980's) Also a post mortem account?
Was it normal for crew to be able to go and come back to a ship without being logged?
If he went missing while on bard someone might have noticed.
Maybe this post should be moved to the board covering the East Riding as Hull was back then.
Did he cache his whisky in the tank so as not to have to share it? (several whisky bottles noted)
Many thanks for this.
Howdie
The sole source for this story appears to be "Captain Kong" on the merchant-navy.net forum, who heard it from a friend:
"I went ashore (in Antwerp) at 1pm and at the first bar stopped for a beer. Inside was a lad I had sailed with on the `Empress of Scotland` 18 months earlier.
He was on a Ropner boat, the `Levenpool`, a Fort boat; they were trying to get paid off. They were on a two-year voyage, coal from the Continent to Buenos Aires and grain back to the Continent.
They had all began to break out in scabs and boils with bad guts. They had complained about the water, which was pumped up from the after peak and told the tank was cleaned and cement washed in dry dock in Glasgow nine months earlier. They had the Union man over from London and eventually got the tank drained and then the manhole cover was unbolted. Inside they found the skeletal remains of a man and some empty whisky bottles. It was presumed that the man who cleaned it also had a few whiskies and flaked out inside. When the men shouted inside if anyone was there, no answer, then they battened down… When it was filled up he must have drowned and they had been drinking this contaminated water for nine months. So they were hoping to get paid off.
My mate was gulping ale down as fast as he could, trying to wash the taste of the ships water away. I was keeping up with him and eventually Oblivion. I remember nothing until I woke up at sea bound for London. Don’t remember going back on board or anything."
https://www.merchant-navy.net/forum/swinging-the-lamp/43993-voyage-dunedin-star.html