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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: sueellio on Sunday 21 April 24 12:32 BST (UK)
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I have Hannah Wailes b 1894 Auckland marrying George Philipson born 1892 Winlaton/ Spen
They married in 1916 and their only child Hannah was born in 1918.
Birth registration states mother's name Wailes
I
don't have access to the 1921 census.
I can find daughter Hannah who married Walter Copping in 1939 at Plantation Tce , Fir Tree on the 1939 register .
I can't seem to find her mother or father on the 1939 register.
I've looked at deaths and found none that were particularly likely prior to 1939
Ancestry search throws up a divorce record for a Hannah Philipson, but my sub doesn't allow me to view the details.
I've also found a marriage for Hannah Philipson and a John W Murphy in 1923 at Auckland , which if it was her might suggest George had died.
Have tried finding Parish records on Durham County records online but to no avail.
Same with findagrave
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
There could be a history of mental health problems in the Wailes family and indeed Hannah born 1918 was "estranged" from her family for over 40 years following the birth of her youngest child .
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Try looking for Walter Copping born 1913 in the 1939 register and you'll find Hannah
Sorry, just realised you had found her - I thought you were looking.
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There is a birth reg Auckland for the surname Murphy Thomas 1927 mothers mn Phillipson.
1939 John W Murphy is widowed.
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Birth Reg
Murphy William Dec 1924 Wailes Auckland 10a 458
Death Reg;
MURPHY, HANNAH 39
GRO Reference: 1934 J Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 251
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Try looking for Walter Copping born 1913 in the 1939 register and you'll find Hannah
I think that's Hannah born 1918 rather than Hannah born 1894 is it not, ie Walters wife?
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There is a birth reg Auckland for the surname Murphy Thomas 1927 mothers mn Phillipson.
1939 John W Murphy is widowed.
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Birth Reg
Murphy William Dec 1924 Wailes Auckland 10a 458
Death Reg;
MURPHY, HANNAH 39
GRO Reference: 1934 J Quarter in AUCKLAND Volume 10A Page 251
Wonderful ! I had seen that death record , but not the birth record.
Thank you!
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Your welcome :)
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It can be useful to look at the Durham County Council Indexes for marriages as they can confirm a previous marriage and likely maiden name. See link below:
https://gro.durham.gov.uk/Person/1856654/0/4
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I have Hannah Wailes b 1894 Auckland marrying George Philipson born 1892 Winlaton/ Spen
They married in 1916 and their only child Hannah was born in 1918.
Birth registration states mother's name Wailes
I
don't have access to the 1921 census.
FindMyPast are currently the only access to the 1921 census and we are not allowed by RC rules to do lookups.
Your library may have access on their in house computers.
HOWEVER, FindMyPast let you register and do a search for free - then you get the option of paying either £2.50 for the transcript or £3.50 for the image
Via an account that doesn't have a sub I did a search for Hannah Phi*ipson born 1918 in Co.Durham (as the later marriage that has been found has two l's rather than one)
1 result, Hannah Phillipson, born in Crook, lived in parish of Crook & Billy Row, Reg District Auckland
hover over the transcription icon and it says there are 4 people in total, Hannah, and Isabel and an Isabella plus one other
Repeated the search just using Hannah Phillipson, no birth year and specified living in Crook & Billy Row, Reg District Auckland
2 results 1 as above and the other was born 1894
EDIT ADDED
If you do that search for Hannah Phillipson born 1894 and on the advanced screen specify a marital status of Widowed the same record pops up again, so she is saying George had died by then.
So as we can't do an actual look up, and this looks really quite likely to be them you'd need to either pay for the image (the extra pound is worth it to be sure its transcribed correctly and also see the address panel which shows who it was addressed to) OR find a library near you who has access to FindMyPast on site.
Boo
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It can be useful to look at the Durham County Council Indexes for marriages as they can confirm a previous marriage and likely maiden name. See link below:
https://gro.durham.gov.uk/Person/1856654/0/4
I'm not familiar with that index, so thank you very much.
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Please could you tell us what documents you have to confirm that the George Phil(l)ipson who married Hannah Wailes was born in 1892, in Winlaton/Spen?
Maybe their marriage cert which would show his age, occupation and father's name and occupation?
Boo
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These are the transcripts of the census returns for the George Philipson born 1892 WInlaton/Spen that you asked about
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSCS-Q1H
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHD-N5D
his occupation in 1911 was insurance clerk
there is a 'possible' marriage in Q2 1917, Stockton for him to Marie Lockwood
and if you check the 1921 census there is an entry that matches this man, for age, area he lived in, wife's name and his occupation
at that stage, my curiosity got the better of me and I got the birth record for the daughter Hannah born 1918
born 7 May 1918, Foundry Fields, Crook
Hannah, girl
father George Philipson, occ: Lead Miner (Foreman)
Informant George Philipson, father, Garden Terrace, Allenhead, Allendale, Northumberland
registered 25 May 1918
These census returns seem to be a better match for the husband of Hannah Wailes
1901 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS98-9BT
1911 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMP-RXS
and this one was born c1888 in Allendale
deaths Q4 1918 Hexham George Philipson, age 31
so that is possible to match with Hannah being a widow in 1921
In order to be sure you would need the marriage cert for Hannah Wailes and George Philipson to see what his age was and his occupation and his father's details.
Boo
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These are the transcripts of the census returns for the George Philipson born 1892 WInlaton/Spen that you asked about
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSCS-Q1H
1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWHD-N5D
his occupation in 1911 was insurance clerk
there is a 'possible' marriage in Q2 1917, Stockton for him to Marie Lockwood
and if you check the 1921 census there is an entry that matches this man, for age, area he lived in, wife's name and his occupation
at that stage, my curiosity got the better of me and I got the birth record for the daughter Hannah born 1918
born 7 May 1918, Foundry Fields, Crook
Hannah, girl
father George Philipson, occ: Lead Miner (Foreman)
Informant George Philipson, father, Garden Terrace, Allenhead, Allendale, Northumberland
registered 25 May 1918
These census returns seem to be a better match for the husband of Hannah Wailes
1901 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XS98-9BT
1911 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMP-RXS
and this one was born c1888 in Allendale
deaths Q4 1918 Hexham George Philipson, age 31
so that is possible to match with Hannah being a widow in 1921
In order to be sure you would need the marriage cert for Hannah Wailes and George Philipson to see what his age was and his occupation and his father's details.
Boo
Oh amazing Boo. I was beginning to think I had the wrong George. I had the 1901 and 11 census for the George from Spen , but no info re the marriage of Hannah and the George other than the quarter and year.
As you say,that's far more likely
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Its likely but without having details from their marriage its still not definite.
You could try emailing the Durham Registrars and asking if they would check the record and confirm/ deny that the groom was a lead miner and his father was called William.
Some registrars will reply, some just tell you how to buy the cert to find out, but Shy Bairns get Nowt so its worth asking.
NB if they do reply, they will only tell you if its a match or not, they wont tell you any new info.
Boo
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Its likely but without having details from their marriage its still not definite.
You could try emailing the Durham Registrars and asking if they would check the record and confirm/ deny that the groom was a lead miner and his father was called William.
Some registrars will reply, some just tell you how to buy the cert to find out, but Shy Bairns get Nowt so its worth asking.
NB if they do reply, they will only tell you if its a match or not, they wont tell you any new info.
Boo
Ha ha . Thanks again 👍