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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: dillybert on Monday 08 April 24 17:38 BST (UK)

Title: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: dillybert on Monday 08 April 24 17:38 BST (UK)
Hello
Please can you help me identify the name of Mary Wilcox' birthplace in the 1861 census. She was born in Wales but was in the Southwark area from at least 1814 onwards.

Mary Pugh - 1783-6 ish, born Llan...(??), Montgomeryshire. Ancestry thinks it says Llanwehyn but that doesn't seem to exist.
other refs:
1814 Married James Willcocks in St Mary Newington, London. He was a Tanner from Totnes in Devon.
1841 census (Mary Willcox, 55), St John Horsleydown, Southwark
1851 census (Mary Willcocks, 66) - St John Horsleydown, Southwark. Gives place of birth Montgomery, Wales
1861 census (Mary Wilcox, 78) -St John Horsleydown, Southwark.  Place of birth: see attached.
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 08 April 24 17:55 BST (UK)
Possibly Llanwddyn? - dd in Welsh is pronounced th. So it would sound spoken like 'Lanwethin' or simular, depending on dialect.

It does look like Llanw.....

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/indexpars#L

Cas
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: KGarrad on Monday 08 April 24 18:00 BST (UK)
Problem is you are looking at an Englishman's attempt at a Welsh word!! :o
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: arthurk on Monday 08 April 24 19:42 BST (UK)
Possibly Llanwddyn? - dd in Welsh is pronounced th. So it would sound spoken like 'Lanwethin' or simular, depending on dialect.

It does look like Llanw.....

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/indexpars#L

The last few letters look to me like -rhyn, so from this list and with a bit of variant spelling, could it be Llanwrin?
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Monday 08 April 24 20:04 BST (UK)
Possibly Llanwddyn? - dd in Welsh is pronounced th. So it would sound spoken like 'Lanwethin' or simular, depending on dialect.

It does look like Llanw.....

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/MGY/indexpars#L

The last few letters look to me like -rhyn, so from this list and with a bit of variant spelling, could it be Llanwrin?

Could well be without anymore clues and so early on it is difficult to say.

But I don't know any English person (likely enumerator) that would spell the sounding wrin/rin as rhyn.

Just my thoughts
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: arthurk on Monday 08 April 24 20:15 BST (UK)
But I don't know any English person (likely enumerator) that would spell the sounding wrin as rhyn.

I was wondering if the person responsible might have known that 'w' is a vowel in Welsh, and was simply substituting -rhyn for -rin.
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Monday 08 April 24 21:24 BST (UK)
There's a few Pughs baptised in Llanwrin around the right period. Some we have no name for, as the pages have been badly scanned and the name column us chopped off (on Ancestry)
Title: Re: Help with Welsh Placename
Post by: dillybert on Wednesday 10 April 24 19:51 BST (UK)
Thank you all for the suggestions. I'll have a dig around in LLarnwrin and LLanwddyn.

I will also dig around locally for other Pughs again to see if I might find a connection - perhaps a brother or sister or cousin came with her.