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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Eddie G on Friday 05 April 24 04:45 BST (UK)
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Hello, I'm hoping someone can help with a clue.
My Grandmother, Catherine Laura Edmunds was born in Abergavenny on 27th March 1887 to Eli and Margaret Edmunds. She grew up in Caerphilly at Pontygwindy Farm.
She married my Grandfather Henry George in 1907 in Islington London. Henry was from Pembrokeshire.
My Father Mansel Vivian George was born in July 1907. Sadly Henry passed away in December 1908.
Catherine moved back to Wales and in April 1909 married Edward Davies a widower living in Porth.
She appears as Katherine in the 1911 census with Edward, his two children and my Father. They were living in Bargoed.
After that I can find no trace of her. Edward Davies enlisted and died in WW1. I can't find Catherine or my Father in the 1921 census. I also can't find her in the 1939 register.
I do recall my Mother saying she met her once, my parents married in 1937 so Catherine was alive then, Mum thought she might have been known as Kat or Kitty.
Any help or clues really appreciated.
Ed
I have thought of the possibility that she married a third time as she was still quite young, but I really have no idea.
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Welcome to Rootschat. The best I can find may be worth a look, I would suggest you do not purchase any records before looking for more evidence .
The 1921 census was taken on 21 June 1921, the marriage below, registered between April & June, may be a possibility.
Also two possible children. However I cannot find Catherine with this surname or the others on the 1921 register, I cannot find the children below later but others may be able to help?
Marriages Jun 1921
George Catherine Isaac Rees Merthyr T. 11a 1183
REES, GWYNNETH EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1925 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 1392
REES, VINCENT HARDIE EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1923 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 1402
Two possible deaths but there others later.
REES, CATHERINE 51
GRO Reference: 1938 M Quarter in SWANSEA Volume 11A Page 1134
REES, CATHERINE 63
GRO Reference: 1950 S Quarter in NEATH Volume 08B Page 376
Colin
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I read the newspaper announcement of her birth on your tree as 28th - possibly 25th March
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First, a very warm welcome to RootsChat.
Your grandfather has unusual first names. Have you searched the '21 Census under "Mansel Vivian (no surname) and Yob 1907?.
Cannot post details (Terms/Conditions) but it returns an entry (first in the list) that ties in with some of the already posted details eg. first name, initial of 2nd name, location (loosely), status of father, status of mother and month of birth (calculated from date of census and age). Not sure of place of birth in relation to place of registration. The surname, however, has no connection with those already posted.
Cannot find this person pre 1921 - census, birth registration.
Any thoughts?
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Eddie,
You have mentioned that Edward Davies enlisted & died in WW1.
Do you have any further information regarding his military service - particularly his date of death.
I ask this because, although his service record may not have survived, there should be records of:
his soldier's effects; pensions payments to his widow & children and (possibly) a Will - which soldiers were encouraged to make before entering a theatre of war.
Quite possibly one or more of these could contain useful clues to assist you in your search for post-1911 information.
Willyam
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Deleted
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Catherine Edmunds born 1887 Crickhowell Married Henry George 1871 - 1908
Son Mansell Vivian George born 30th July 1907 registered Uxbridge Died 26th February 1962 Dewty New South Wales Australia
He married Dorothy Delia Berling born 18th September 1910 Clacton London Died 3rd October 2015 Bowral New South Wales Australia
1911 Census resided at GelliGaer Edward Davies a Collier born 1874 Ebbw Vale and his children Helen born 1895 Trehafod and Clifford born 1903 Trehafod togeather with Catherine and her son Mansell George
Heddwch
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Catherines son married in 1936 and left England in 1955 so that extends the timeline for her being around unless she also left the country
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Marriages Jun 1921
George Catherine Isaac Rees Merthyr T. 11a 1183
REES, GWYNNETH EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1925 S Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 1392
REES, VINCENT HARDIE EDMUNDS
GRO Reference: 1923 M Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 1402
Vincent Hardie Rees dob 17 December 1922 born Bargoed, is in Australia WW2
His father is William Albert Rees.
They look to arrive Australia 1923. I think the wife is Lily
So their marriage is 1909.
Added.
Gwynneth has different parents? As no sign of William & Lily travelling back for that birth
But she possibly died shortly after birth
Deaths Dec 1925 (>99%)
Rees Gwynneth 0 Merthyr T. 11a 763
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First, a very warm welcome to RootsChat.
Your grandfather has unusual first names. Have you searched the '21 Census under "Mansel Vivian (no surname) and Yob 1907?.
Cannot post details (Terms/Conditions) but it returns an entry (first in the list) that ties in with some of the already posted details eg. first name, initial of 2nd name, location (loosely), status of father, status of mother and month of birth (calculated from date of census and age). Not sure of place of birth in relation to place of registration. The surname, however, has no connection with those already posted.
Cannot find this person pre 1921 - census, birth registration.
Any thoughts?
Makes you wonder if this marriage is pertinent
Marriages Dec 1913
Davies Catherine L Watson Cardiff 11a 746
Watson James McP Davies Cardiff 11a 746
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Eddie,
I am thinking that you are probably domiciled in Oz - so I don't know how achievable this may be for you.
As both of Catherine's parents' estates went to Probate (for Eli in 1933 & for Margaret in 1938), if you apply to: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills for copies of the Grants of Probate you might be rewarded with copies of their respective Wills. One or both of them might just mention their daughter.
The cost per application is just £1.50, and be careful to avoid any fee-charging websites that offer to do this for you.
Willyam
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Long report of the funeral for Eli in Caerphilly Journal 04 February 1933,
but unfortunately only male family members went.
Margaret’s funeral Caerphilly Journal 19 February 1938
No mention of daughter.
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Eddie,
I am thinking that you are probably domiciled in Oz - so I don't know how achievable this may be for you.
As both of Catherine's parents' estates went to Probate (for Eli in 1933 & for Margaret in 1938), if you apply to: https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills for copies of the Grants of Probate you might be rewarded with copies of their respective Wills. One or both of them might just mention their daughter.
The cost per application is just £1.50, and be careful to avoid any fee-charging websites that offer to do this for you.
Willyam
Perfectly achievable Willyam. Works the same as in UK. And a good idea.
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Thank you for the responses, this is a brick wall I have been stuck on for a while. I am in Oz Willyam, and I have just been able to order a copy Margaret's will. Eli's doesn't come up as being available.
I have also ordered a copy of the Davies / Watson marriage registration suggested by Mckha489, unfortunately no PDF so I will have to wait. I also had found the Mansel V Watson 1921 census entry so this is intriguing.
Again thank you everyone I will be looking at all your ideas.
Ed
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Re the funderal reports which stated no women mentioned
Women where not allowed at graves ect just stayed home getting the funderal food ready
Heddwch
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She grew up in Caerphilly at Pontygwindy Farm.
In case you dont have it, a photo of the area taken in 1948 with Pontygwindy Farm in the background is avilable from Britain from Above (https://britainfromabove.org.uk/en/image/WAW018662)
I've circled it on a preview image:
(https://i.ibb.co/PN7Dh2W/WAW018662.jpg) (https://imgbb.com/)
upload images (https://imgbb.com/)
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Thank you Sikes!
Ed
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Grandma Found!
Thanks everyone for your suggestions. One idea was to look into the marriage between Catherine Davies and James Watson. I now have a copy of the certificate and it is indeed my Grandmother.
Interestingly her son, (my Father) Mansel V George is shown in the 1921 census with the surname Watson probably entered assuming he was Mr & Mrs Watson's son.
Thank you, Ed
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When you got Margaret’s will…did it mention Catherine?
Also, what does the McP stand for in James Watson’s name? Is it in full on the marriage certificate?
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Thanks for confirming post #3 above
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When you got Margaret’s will…did it mention Catherine?
Also, what does the McP stand for in James Watson’s name? Is it in full on the marriage certificate?
No she is not mentioned in Margaret's will, only her son John Thomas Edmunds. James Watson's full name is shown on the marriage certificate - James McPherson Watson, which is also the name of his father.