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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: katiesam on Friday 05 April 24 00:20 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
Would love you help in finding out more information about James and Bridget Sullivan - info i have is:
James Sullivan - born Tooley Street, Bermondsey in 1860 - died in St Olave, Bermondsey 1897
Bridget (unknown maiden name) - born in Ireland in 1860
They had two children that I know of - Bridget Mary in 18th Jan 1883 and Margaret in 1885 both born in Bermondsey - i think St Olave
I cannot find a marriage record for James and Bridget and so I don't know her maiden name and have only census records to go by which puts her year of birth as 1860 and that she was born in Ireland but doesn't even say which town.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
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This is one possible birth for Margaret.
SULLIVAN, MARGARET mother's maiden surname SULLIVAN
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in
SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 230
Sue
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This is one possible birth for Margaret.
SULLIVAN, MARGARET mother's maiden surname SULLIVAN
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in
SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 230
Sue
Hi Sue, thanks for the reply! I'm pretty sure she was born 1885 so found this but for some reason doesn't give the whole surname -
SULLIVAN, MARGARET CA...
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 290
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I was looking at that one (maiden name CA……) but there isn’t a Bridget 1883 with a MMN starting CA….
???
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I was looking at that one (maiden name CA……) but there isn’t a Bridget 1883 with a MMN starting CA….
???
I know!! I was looking for the same thing! Very confusing! I'm at such a dead end
I do know that Bridget Mary is listed as Mary Bridget at times throughout her life
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I agree with mckha489....I wondered about that one, but, like you Katie, I could not see a marriage for the couple.
The reason for not showing the whole surname may be that is indecipherable,
Sue
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I've even searched marriages in Ireland and to no avail! With such common names and many James Sullivan's marrying Bridget's at about the right time it's made it difficult -
Census details are 1891:
Name Bridget Sullivan
Gender Female
Age 31
Relationship Wife
Birth Year 1860
Spouse James Sullivan
Child Bridget Sullivan; Magaret Sullivan
Birth Place Ireland
Civil parish Bermondsey
Residence Place Bermondsey, London, England
Registration district St Olave Southwark
Sub registration district Leather Market
James Sullivan 31
Bridget Sullivan 31
Bridget Sullivan 8
Magaret Sullivan 6
1901
Name Bridget Sullivan
Age 46
Estimated Birth Year abt 1855
Relation to Head Head
Gender Female
Birth Place Ireland
Civil parish Southwark St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish St Paul Bermondsey
Town London
County/Island London
Country England
Registration district Southwark
Sub-registration district Kent Road
Bridget Sullivan 46
Bridget Sullivan 19
Margaret Sullivan 16
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I think CA….. could be Carmody. (Hannah Stacher Carmody m James Sullivan 1884) so that’s one down.
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Well thinking a bit wider,
Consider the father of the girls was not James SULLIVAN, but she and children assumed his name by census time
DENNY, BRIDGET mms CALLAGHAN
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter
SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 216
Sue
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I think CA….. could be Carmody. (Hannah Stacher Carmody m James Sullivan 1884) so that’s one down.
I didn't think to go through it that way! Great idea! Thank you
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Well thinking a bit wider,
Consider the father of the girls was not James SULLIVAN, but she and children assumed his name by census time
DENNY, BRIDGET mms CALLAGHAN
GRO Reference: 1883 D Quarter
SAINT OLAVE SOUTHWARK Volume 01D Page 216
Sue
Definitely something I will consider that I didn't think of! Last time I couldn't find a marriage certificate it was that the woman was previously married and her married name was on the marriage cert rather than her maiden so not sure why this didn't occur to me!
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There is a baptism on FindMyPast. Catholic at Our Lady of La Salette & St Joseph, Bermondsey
Brigida
Born 16/Jan 1883 bap 11 Feb
Parents Jacobi(James) and Brigida (Bridget) Olim (nee) WALSH
Sponsors Jacobus Walsh & Maria Anna Cummins
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There is a baptism on FindMyPast. Catholic at Our Lady of La Salette & St Joseph, Bermondsey
Brigida
Born 16/Jan 1883 bap 11 Feb
Parents Jacobi(James) and Brigida (Bridget) Olim (nee) WALSH
Sponsors Jacobus Walsh & Maria Anna Cummins
With the same birth date i was given and the fact it's in bermondsey surely that has to be her? Does it have a surname?
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There is a baptism on FindMyPast. Catholic at Our Lady of La Salette & St Joseph, Bermondsey
Brigida
Born 16/Jan 1883 bap 11 Feb
Parents Jacobi(James) and Brigida (Bridget) Olim (nee) WALSH
Sponsors Jacobus Walsh & Maria Anna Cummins
With the same birth date i was given and the fact it's in bermondsey surely that has to be her? Does it have a surname?
Sorry yes. SULLIVAN
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Great thank you. Is it possible that they never registered her birth? I'm not too hot on the rules back then. This is my husbands tree im researching - my side is very much irish and alot of them didn't register their children so i usually find the baptism records instead but thought in england it would incur a fine - not sure the reasons behind not registering.
Have had a look on GRO and cannot find a sullivan born to a MMN of Walsh that could match either of the daughters
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10 Nov 1884 birth bapt same church 14 December
Margaritta Sullivan. Parents ditto
Sponsors this time are a Joannes (John) …… Will post a clip and Helena Reagan.
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Talking though a hole in my head.
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I think BURKE. Very large k
Sue
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Another child
Gulielmus Sullivan born 24 August 1888 baptised as before 9 sept 1888
Parents as before except Welsh not Walsh
Godparents
Jacobus Dorgan and Maria Anna Sullivan
Could Maria Anna Sullivan be the Maria Anna Cummins earlier? Added….maybe not. Can’t find a marriage.
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Surely ONE of them must have been registered!
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27 June 1890 Anna Dorgan was born
Baptised our Lady of La Salette
Father James Dorgan, mother Maria Anna Thornton
But the godparents are
Gulielmus Welsh & Birgitta Sullivan
So now I think we have James Welsh/Walsh, William Welsh/Walsh and Bridget,
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Another one
14 Feb 1878
Jacobus Sullivan
Parents Jacobi Sullivan and Birgittaie Walsh
godparents David Fitzgerald & Maria Walsh
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Probably as an aside, but I do note that on the 1901 census where Bridget snr. is a widow , there are 2 families surnamed WELCH living next door and one up from her.
One person head of her (EDIT) household aged 70 was born in Ireland. Can't read her (EDIT) name.
Scribbly awful writing.!
Perhaps Wiilliam Sullivan (b. 1888) might have died as he is not seen on census with Bridget.
Sue
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Possibility ...
There is this family in 1871 in the Leather Market district of St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey – Palmers Rents
William Walsh 45 born Ireland, dock labourer
Mary Walsh 35 born Ireland, char woman
Bridgett Walsh 14 born Ireland
Ann Walsh 12 born Ireland
James Walsh 10 months born Bermondsey
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Probably as an aside, but I do note that on the 1901 census where Bridget snr. is a widow , there are 2 families surnamedd WELCH living next door and one up from her.
One man, head of his household aged 70 was born in Ireland. Can't read his name.
Looks like
Mary Welsh 70 born Ireland
John Welsh 26, son, Boiler maker born Bermondsey
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Yes maybe.
I did edit my post to indicate female.
Sue
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There is this possible marriage with another couple same page?
Marriages Mar Q 1878
REARDON Joseph St. Olave 1d 299
RYAN Mary Ann St. Olave 1d 299
SULLIVAN James St. Olave 1d 299
Welch Bridget St. Olave 1d 299
Cas
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Just throwing this in the mix as maybe connected?
All born Ireland
St Mary Magdalen Bermondsey
1871 - Piece 630, Folio 117, Page number 18
Boyle V Simpson 23 Head - Doctor
Teresa F Simpson 21 Wife
Louisa M Simpson 0 (15 days) Daughter
Jane Walsh 52 Mother-in-law
Bridget Walsh 16 Daughter-in- Law (sister in law?) same age as 1901 census
Marriage
Name Teresa Frances Walsh - Boyle Valentine Simpson same page
Date of Registration 1870
Registration district Dublin North, Ireland
Volume 7
Page number 503
FHL Film Number 101251
Simpson couple must have returned to Ireland
Name Boyle Charles Simpson
Birth Date 3 Aug 1872
Birth Place North City No1, City of Dublin, Ireland
Baptism Place North City No1, City of Dublin, Ireland
Father Boyle Valentine Simpson
Mother Teresa Frances Walsh
FHL Film Number 0255857
Snippet in the Belfast Newsletter
Name Son Simpson
Gender Male
Record Type Birth
Birth Date 3 Aug 1872
Birth Place Dublin, Ireland
Father Dr Boyle V Simpson
Mother Simpson
Publication Date 6 Aug 1872
Register
Name Charles Boyle Simpson
Baptism Age 0
Event Type Baptism
Birth Date 3 Aug 1872
Baptism Date 9 Aug 1872
Baptism Place St Michan's, Dublin city, Dublin, Ireland
Residence Place 23 Berkley Road
Parish Variants North Anne St., St. Michan's, Nth. Anne Street
Diocese Dublin
Father Boyle Valentina Simpson
Mother Teresa Walshe
Cas
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I
Another one
14 Feb 1878
Jacobus Sullivan
Parents Jacobi Sullivan and Birgittaie Walsh
godparents David Fitzgerald & Maria Walsh
On the 1891 census where we have seen James SULLIVAN and wife Bridget with the daughters Bridget and Margaret, their address is 7 South Place
At 1 South Place is David FITZGERALD aged 39 with his wife Mary aged 32 and a boy named John aged 9months.
This couple married ..
Marriages Mar 1883
FITZGERALD David
WELCH Mary
St. Olave 1d 386
So this Mary (Maria) was possibly Bridget's sister.
Sue
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They waited a long time to be married
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The 1871 census family found by Neale1961 as a possible to me begin to look very likely as the right family of Bridget.
In 1881, I can see William and Mary WELCH with children Ann, James, Lawrence, Meikle and John.
Marriages Jun 1888
BROWN Sarah Ann
WELSH Lawrence .
St Saviour 1d401
John WELCH was born in 1875 and is still with Mary WELCH when aged 26 in 1901
On the same page Lawrence WELCH and Sarah are shown as living next door to Mary WELCH.
All next to widowed Bridget SULLIVAN and her daughters (see my reply#22 )
..So might we think, that the parents of Bridget were in fact William and Mary WELCH.
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Carrying on from Sparrett’s above post….
I believe William Welsh’s wife was Mary Cummings / Cummins. See kids births registered in Bermondsey.
1881 census, looks like it says parents and older kids were born in Waterford (Ireland in other census)
So this could be the son James born 1864 in Waterford baptisms.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRQT-MV3
Last child born there before moving to England?
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Yes, it looks very likely Neale1961.
Katesam has been online not too long ago and hopefully we will hear soon if the information has found answers for them.
Quite a lot to take in and collate I imagine ;D.
Sue