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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Durham => Topic started by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 15:16 GMT (UK)

Title: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 15:16 GMT (UK)
Hi

Looking to confirm the parents of James Edward Tulloch, born in Sunderland on the 10th April 1916 (mother's maiden name is 'Burns', and his brother, Thomas, born in Sunderland on the 16th September 1917, (mother's maiden name given as 'Burns.')

No record of a Tulloch/Burns marriage in Sunderland (or anywhere that I can see), however, the 1921 census (I just have very limited access), appear to find the family living in Southwick.
Both James and Thomas are given the correct year of birth (no place of birth listed), and they are listed with 'parents' James W Tulloch born 1875 Sunderland, and Elisa (Eliza) Jane born 1884 (no place of birth given).

Cannot find the family in 1939, but their son, James Edward, married Ivy Simpson in Sunderland in 1940.

James W Tulloch appears to have married Eliza J Butler in Sunderland in 1915, but both the boys mother's maiden name is definitely given as 'Burns.'
James W Tulloch is easy to trace backwards - surname spelt as 'Tullock' but who was Eliza Jane Burns/Butler?

Thanks
Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Kay99 on Saturday 09 March 24 15:51 GMT (UK)
If it helps in 1939 James W Tulloch is transcribed as Jane W Tullock b 1877 on F M P with wife Eliza in Sunderland and her birth date is listed as 1 Jan 1882

Kay
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 09 March 24 15:52 GMT (UK)
It sounds as if the mother had been married before?
So a marriage would be in her previous married name.
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: MaureeninNY on Saturday 09 March 24 15:53 GMT (UK)
On Ancestry:
Elizabetha Jane Burns
   Female
Birth Date   1 Jan 1882
Baptism Date   2 Feb 1882
Baptism Place   St. Marys, Sunderland, Durham, England
Father   
Joannis Burns
Mother   
Elizabeth Kane Burns

Maureen
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 15:54 GMT (UK)
Typically found James and Eliza in 1939 after I posted, although neither son is with them.

I did think that Eliza may have married previously too, but no trace, as far as I can see.

Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 15:55 GMT (UK)
Goodness!! That looks like her!!

Thanks so much, I'll try and locate her on the census!

Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: KGarrad on Saturday 09 March 24 15:57 GMT (UK)
Marriage Sept qtr 1915
Sunderland Registration District     Vol 10a, page 1436

Tulloch, James W
Butler, Eliza J
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 15:58 GMT (UK)
I wonder if it was her mother that married again?

She seems to appear on the 1901 census as Eliza Butler - mother Elizabeth Ann, father James

Sue

Found her marriage to James and Eliza J Butler, but no sign of her previous marriage for her.
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Milliepede on Saturday 09 March 24 16:05 GMT (UK)
Quote
James W Tulloch appears to have married Eliza J Butler in Sunderland in 1915

That marriage certificate could be useful and confirm her fathers surname.
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Saturday 09 March 24 16:07 GMT (UK)
I Know!

However, I checked to see when James Butler married Elizabeth (Eliza's mother), and he did so in Sunderland in 1884, two years after his Eliza's birth.
Elizabeth married as Elizabeth Keeling - their first child, John, born in 1885, has mother's maiden name of 'Keeling.'

Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Dundee on Saturday 09 March 24 22:09 GMT (UK)
You don't have to be married to have a baby.  If Elizabeth married as KEELING then she probably wasn't married to John BURNS.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Kay99 on Sunday 10 March 24 03:21 GMT (UK)
Elizabeth Keeling in 1881 living in Sunderland with John Burns and another daughter??

John Burns    25    Head b Newcastle
Elizabeth Burns 19 Wife b Sunderland
Mary A. Burns 1 Daughter b Sunderland
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Sunday 10 March 24 09:19 GMT (UK)
I saw that too and wondered 🤔
Can't find the family again...but can't see a marriage either

Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Cas (stallc) on Sunday 10 March 24 12:45 GMT (UK)
There is this possible, with another couple on page

Marriages Mar Q 1880   
Burn    John George        Sunderland    10a   658    
Felling    Elizabeth Ann        Sunderland    10a   658    

Tree on ancestry for the Butler children states has birth certs and MMN is Keelan. Seems a lot of errors when name is transcribed.

Added: there is also a marriage in 1882 for John George Burn, with likely family in 1881, so looks like not same person?

Cas

Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: Kay99 on Sunday 10 March 24 14:18 GMT (UK)
There is this possible, with another couple on page

Marriages Mar Q 1880   
Burn    John George        Sunderland    10a   658    
Felling    Elizabeth Ann        Sunderland    10a   658    

Cas

There is this possible son's birth for the couple

 BURN, WILLIAM        FELLING     
GRO Reference: 1880  J Quarter in SUNDERLAND  Volume 10A  Page 691

and possibly the family in 1881 living in Monkwearmouth Shore
 John Burn   20
Elizabeth Burn   18
William Burn   1
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Monday 11 March 24 12:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks everyone for all your help - I'm convinced that Eliza Jane Butler was born Elizabeth Jane Burns and has 'assumed' her stepfather's name, but still struggling to comfirm.

Thanks
Sue
Title: Re: Mysterious Eliza Jane Burns/Butler
Post by: aidansrest on Friday 22 March 24 16:48 GMT (UK)
Ok...so got copy marriage certificate between James William Tulloch and Eliza Jane Butler (Burns). She named her father as being James Butler (deceased - he was, dying in 1901), a glass maker. One of the witnesses was a Peter Butler, her half brother.
James Butler was her stepfather, her mother married him in 1884.
So, I'm guessing she was born as 'Burns' but has assumed her stepfather's surname, but used her original surname when registering her children's births!

So confusing!!

Sue