RootsChat.Com

Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Wulfsige on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:04 GMT (UK)

Title: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: Wulfsige on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:04 GMT (UK)
I wonder what it means when the 1891 (and later) census gives "Welsh" under "languages spoken". I assume if it says 'English', it really means 'only English', and if it says 'both' it means the person could communicate satisfactorily in either English or Welsh. But when it only says 'Welsh', does it mean the person could speak only Welsh, or does it mean no more than that Welsh was the person's preferred language? Was there a formal meaning or use imposed on the registrars?
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: mckha489 on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:06 GMT (UK)
https://www.pembrokeshirehistoricalsociety.co.uk/census-wales-language-question/

Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:27 GMT (UK)
Quote from: mckha489 on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:06 GMT (UK)
https://www.pembrokeshirehistoricalsociety.co.uk/census-wales-language-question/

Just about to post same!!
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:31 GMT (UK)
Had been looking for this publication - but doesn't appear available on line. Available at £15.99 paperback.

https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Welsh_Language_and_the_1891_Census.html?id=SSt4AAAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:42 GMT (UK)
Check out Welsh newspapers online for comments/reaction to the Welsh language question - eg.

https://newspapers.library.wales/view/3171942/3171945/23/census%20AND%20%22welsh%20language%22
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 March 24 09:56 GMT (UK)
Hansard - S T Ritchie's amendment (towards end of debate). Did the eventual question in col 17 of the Census sheet deliver?
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1890-07-22/debates/631130cf-54c7-42b8-93e3-6880ca11d9ac/Committee?highlight=%22s%20t%20evans%22#contribution-00601cd3-2069-4fa0-ab02-e3d8b2402a61 
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Wednesday 06 March 24 15:04 GMT (UK)
South Wales Echo, 1 May 1891
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: Wulfsige on Thursday 07 March 24 15:45 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for these replies. They seem to answer my question. The gist seems to be that people who wrote "Welsh" on the 1891 census could often speak English, but that Welsh was their preferred language.
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: Sam Swift on Thursday 07 March 24 18:33 GMT (UK)
In spite of the ways in which this was interpreted and answered, some people who answered "Welsh" actually completed a Welsh form - indicated by the letter "W" in the initial column.
Title: Re: Welsh in 1891 census
Post by: hanes teulu on Thursday 07 March 24 20:26 GMT (UK)
Really enjoyed this post.
Ritchie's amendment to the 1890 Census bill was intended to identify monoglot Welsh speakers (Cymry uniaith). Is the jury still out?
https://journals.library.wales/view/1042330/1042449/26#?cv=26&m=1&h=%221891%2BOR%2Bcensus%22&xywh=-301%2C829%2C3048%2C1956

Reading the 1891 newspaper headline "National Lying" doesn't help