RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Warwickshire => Topic started by: Keitht on Tuesday 05 March 24 11:53 GMT (UK)

Title: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Keitht on Tuesday 05 March 24 11:53 GMT (UK)
 There are many records to prove that George William Morecock (1902-1981) was born, lived and died in Birmingham yet I can't find him on the 1911 census despite having tried every mutation of the name that I can think of. Please can anyone see what I am missing or maybe someone with access to the 1921 census can find him there?
What I'm actually looking for are the names of his parents.

Thanks in anticipation,

Keith
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 05 March 24 12:00 GMT (UK)
I can't see him on the GRO index

The only George William Morecock reg 1902 is in Hunslet mother's maiden name Bradley
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: amondg on Tuesday 05 March 24 12:07 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage to Mary K Haywood 1925 reg. Birmingham  1st quarter vol 6D page 643

A copy of the certificate will give you his father's name and occupation.

1935 he and his wife Mary Kathleen are living on Alexandria Street.

1939 he is alone
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 12:31 GMT (UK)
Deleted, wrong family, apologies  :-[
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:07 GMT (UK)
There are many records to prove that George William Morecock (1902-1981) was born, lived and died in Birmingham yet I can't find him on the 1911 census despite having tried every mutation of the name that I can think of. Please can anyone see what I am missing or maybe someone with access to the 1921 census can find him there ?

May I ask, if you don’t have a birth registration and haven’t found him in either the 1911 or 1921 censuses, what is the evidence for his birth in Birmingham?
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Galium on Tuesday 05 March 24 15:10 GMT (UK)
I can't see him on the GRO index

The only George William Morecock reg 1902 is in Hunslet mother's maiden name Bradley

William Morecock married Selina Bradley in Birmingham in 1884. 
The family are in Hunslet, Yorkshire in 1901, but all children were born in Birmingham.

Parish Church of Bishop Ryder, Birmingham 19 October 1884
William Morecock 19 bachelor  gun maker of Staniforth Street
s/o William Morecock gun maker
Selina Bradley[X] 19 spinster of Staniforth Street
d/o John Bradley polisher
witnesses: James Walters; Martha Walters[X]
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Christine53 on Tuesday 05 March 24 15:12 GMT (UK)
Birmingham Electoral Roll 1924 :

Daniel BOOTH
Mary Ann BOOTH
George William MORECOCK
62 Little Green Lane , St Bartholomews Ward , Birmingham

Daniel BOOTH married Mary Ann MORECOCK ( or Alice Skinner ) 3 1907 Birmingham

Mary Ann MORECOCK is in Hunslet with family in 1901 RG13 4192 135 31

In 1911 Mary Ann BOOTH is with her husband and family but no sign of George William Morecock.

I think the Hunslet birth in 1902 is correct and George must be with other family in 1911.

And Galium has just found the Bradley connection !  ;D
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Christine53 on Tuesday 05 March 24 15:27 GMT (UK)
I took a look at the digital image for the birth.
 George William Morecock born 24 Feb 1902 was registered as the child of William and Selina Morecock ( formerly Bradley ).
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 15:31 GMT (UK)
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:W252-CMM

1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9TM-42V

Parents married 1884- image on Ancestry

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 16:59 GMT (UK)
George William Morecock born 24 Feb 1902 was registered as the child of William and Selina Morecock ( formerly Bradley ).

This is probably a total red herring...but I'll put it to you anyway, then you can shoot me down in flames  :D

Take a look at George W King, born 1902 in Leeds, in the 1921 census for Birmingham.  Note his mother's name and also take a look at his exact age in relation to the date of the 1921 census (21st June 1921)
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 17:24 GMT (UK)
Ironic Selina's husband William was a Gun Maker in 1891 census, he might shoot you JenB.

William Morecock died 1917 so no reason why Selina is with Mr King.

Deaths Sep 1917   
Morecock    William    50    Birmingham    6d   247

Do not think she married Mr King, as she died as Morecock

Deaths Jun 1942   
Morecock    Selina    74    Birmingham    6d   122

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 17:29 GMT (UK)
William Morecock died 1917 so no reason why Selina is with Mr King.


I don't follow your logic. The 1921 census was four years after William died  :-\
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 17:32 GMT (UK)
Sorry Jen B what I meant to say was there was no reason why she should not be with Mr King in 1921, her husband had died. I think what you found is spot on

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Galium on Tuesday 05 March 24 18:33 GMT (UK)
Good find, JenB!

I think the William Morecock who died in 1917 was probably William's father, born c 1838 (he is with William and Selina in 1891, and appears to have remarried not long after that).

 FreeBMD gives his age as 50 - and the image they have is rather blotchy.  If you look at the one on FindMyPast, it is clearly 80.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Keitht on Tuesday 05 March 24 18:48 GMT (UK)
Wow, a huge thank you to all respondents. No way when I asked the question did I even begin to suspect that he was my wife's grandmother's brother! WE didn't have him on the tree because we had missed the Hunslett connection.
I had been at this for several days and had reached the point where I couldn't see the wood for the trees.
The amusing part of this and the part that has caused all the interest is that George now appears mon my wife's tree while Mary K Haywood now appears on mine.

Thanks Jen for the possible link to King. I don't have access to the 1921 census but there will be other ways to dig into this.

Regards and sincere thanks to all,

Keith

Regards to all,

Keith
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 19:03 GMT (UK)
Possibly father William Morecock going to NZ

Name   Wm Morecock
Gender   Male
Departure Age   33
Birth Date   abt 1871
Departure Date   4 May 1904
Departure Port   England
Ship Name   Gothic
Shipping Line   Shaw Savill & Albion Co, Ltd
Destination Port   Wellington, New Zealand
Master   W H Kidley

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 19:30 GMT (UK)
Possibly father William Morecock going to NZ

Name   Wm Morecock
Gender   Male
Departure Age   33
Birth Date   abt 1871
Departure Date   4 May 1904
Departure Port   England
Ship Name   Gothic
Shipping Line   Shaw Savill & Albion Co, Ltd
Destination Port   Wellington, New Zealand
Master   W H Kidley

SS

Yes!
https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~blacksmiths/genealogy/gunsmiths-1.htm#M
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 21:12 GMT (UK)
Death ref of William Moorecock in NZ

1944/16696   Moorecock   William Charles   74Y.

Baptised 19th May 1867, image on Anc--possibly born 1st May 1867
.......................................................

His father William Morecock married Martha Porter 12th Sepember 1859. His occupation Gun Maker. (Image on Ancestry)

Birth of William senior

Births Mar 1838   
MORECOCK    William        Whitechapel    2   445

1861 census ref 276 76 31

1871 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VRJK-F5V

MORECOCK, MARTHA  CHARLOTTE     mmn PORTER 
GRO Reference: 1860  S Quarter in WHITECHAPEL  Volume 01C  Page 354

1881 census ref 3001 49 38

Cannot locate William jnrs birth record.

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 21:25 GMT (UK)
I can’t find Selina and George in 1911, neither can I see Selina (as Selina Moorcock) in 1939.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Tuesday 05 March 24 21:29 GMT (UK)
I can’t find Selina and George in 1911, neither can I see Selina (as Selina Moorcock) in 1939.

Neither can I find them in 1911 but Selina as possibly King in 1939

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: JenB on Tuesday 05 March 24 21:37 GMT (UK)

Do not think she married Mr King, as she died as Morecock

Deaths Jun 1942   
Morecock    Selina    74    Birmingham    6d   122


Her death is actually registered as Selina Morecock AND Selina King.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 05 March 24 22:33 GMT (UK)

Do not think she married Mr King, as she died as Morecock

Deaths Jun 1942   
Morecock    Selina    74    Birmingham    6d   122


Her death is actually registered as Selina Morecock AND Selina King.

For info.

Morecock Selina   1942   Warwickshire Burials   Birmingham, Witton Cemetery, Warwickshire
above details from F M P - you can order a copy of the burial register image click here https://www.rootschat.com/links/01t1m/

Burial on findagrave not much detail
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/247289071/selina-morecock


Deaths Sep 1917   
Morecock    William    50    Birmingham    6d   247



Morecock William 1917 Warwickshire Burials Birmingham, Witton Cemetery, Warwickshire

Burial Witton Cemetery
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/247289081/william-morecock


Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 05 March 24 22:54 GMT (UK)

Deaths Sep 1917   
Morecock    William    50    Birmingham    6d   247


SS - Was your death ref from FreeBMD?

GRO indexes have a different age at death for William

MORECOCK, WILLIAM       80 
GRO Reference: 1917  S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 247

Apologies to duplicate didn’t see that Galium had already posted that info. 


I think the William Morecock who died in 1917 was probably William's father, born c 1838 (he is with William and Selina in 1891, and appears to have remarried not long after that).

 FreeBMD gives his age as 50 - and the image they have is rather blotchy.  If you look at the one on FindMyPast, it is clearly 80.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 06 March 24 10:07 GMT (UK)
I've been looking this morning same as everyone else I can't find Selina or George on 1911 census seem pretty elusive  ??? Are there any missing censuses pieces for 1911? Could they be with Mr King in 1911?

There are three King/Bradley between 1906-1910 Birmingham their parents are Matthew King & Emma nee Bradley, married 1893 Birmingham 

1901 census, 1902 b/c address for Morecock's 
2, St Marys Court, Hunslet, Yorkshire
checked that address for 1911 and Newham’s living there  ???
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Galium on Wednesday 06 March 24 14:15 GMT (UK)
 ???

1911 census shows William Mocock (William signed the schedule, and seems to have written this himself) aged 43 in Birmingham. He is a cycle fitter (William Morecock is a cycle hand filer in 1901),  with his son Samuel (aged 15).   
Lodging at the same address is Agnes Haywood (widow), and  two daughters: Kathleen aged 9 and Agnes aged 3 months.

William is married, and has filled in the details for years  married (21) and number of children (5: 3 still living).

There are actually 9 births of Morecock children with mother's maiden name Bradley between 1880 and 1910. There doesn't seem to be any other marriage of a couple with those surnames.

1885 Mary Ann
1887 Jane
1890 William George  - died 1896 aged 6
1892 Kate
1894 Alfred - died 1894
1896 Samuel
1898 Thomas - died 1898
1899 Ellen -died 1899
1902 George William
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Galium on Wednesday 06 March 24 14:19 GMT (UK)
Also there is a William Mocock with the Haywood family in 1921.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Keitht on Wednesday 06 March 24 16:55 GMT (UK)
I've been away from this for a few hours and so much has since come in that I need to go through known family info to see how much I can confirm.

One thing that does seem to fit, though, is the possibility that Mary divorced Gorge William at some point around 1939, probably as the result of the Married Women's Property Act 1937, before which it was extremely difficult for a woman to obtain a divorce. I say this because I have found evidence of no less than three different addresses for her at different times of that year. According to other Ancestry trees on which she appears she married a Thomas G Cash in Birmingham in 1957, something I can't currently confirm.

Ancestry is reporting problems at the moment, some of which I am experiencing but I'll be back with some answers as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 07 March 24 09:11 GMT (UK)
???

1911 census shows William Mocock (William signed the schedule, and seems to have written this himself) aged 43 in Birmingham. He is a cycle fitter (William Morecock is a cycle hand filer in 1901),  with his son Samuel (aged 15).   
Lodging at the same address is Agnes Haywood (widow), and  two daughters: Kathleen aged 9 and Agnes aged 3 months.

William is married, and has filled in the details for years  married (21) and number of children (5: 3 still living).



An interesting find Galium - William Morecock born London

For info
family search & F M P has surname transcribed as Mccock
1911 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWCB-BRZ

Agnes nee Collins her husband Edward Haywood died 1908
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Thursday 07 March 24 09:21 GMT (UK)
Also there is a William Mocock with the Haywood family in 1921.

Free BMD has this possibly death entry

Mocock    William    age 91   
Dec 1956  Birmingham    9c   123

Buried Birmingham, Handsworth Cemetery

Edit to add

1939 register Birmingham there is a  William Mocock born May 1865
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 07 March 24 09:25 GMT (UK)
Lady hawk, I went down that route last night, think he appears in 1939 with a dob of may 1865. Still not decided if he is the same William who married Selina. So many Mocock/morecocks who are gun makers/ gun finishers etc

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 07 March 24 20:35 GMT (UK)
???

1911 census shows William Mocock (William signed the schedule, and seems to have written this himself) aged 43 in Birmingham. He is a cycle fitter (William Morecock is a cycle hand filer in 1901),  with his son Samuel (aged 15).   
Lodging at the same address is Agnes Haywood (widow), and  two daughters: Kathleen aged 9 and Agnes aged 3 months.

William is married, and has filled in the details for years  married (21) and number of children (5: 3 still living).

...................................

The William Charles Morecock who died aged 74 in 1944 details below.

Born
MOCOCK, WILLIAM  CHARLES     mmn WILSON 
GRO Reference: 1870  J Quarter in BETHNAL GREEN  Volume 01C  Page 316

His parents Alfred Morecock 1842-1893 & Mary Ann Wilson. Alfred is the brother of William Morecock born 1838, Both have mmn Eaves.

census refs
1881- 2993 141 37
1891- 2392 122 23
Marries Minnie Maud Birch dg 1891
1901- 269 175 13
4 known children, Minnie Maud 1893. Doris May 1897, Leah 1898, William 1901

William goes to NZ in 1904.

Cannot find Minnie and children after 1901 census.

So in conclusion I believe the William found with the Haywoods in 1911/1921 is the father of George W Morecock.

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Mabel Bagshawe on Thursday 07 March 24 21:14 GMT (UK)
Do you think this is Minnie and children in 1911?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWWH-N2S
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Thursday 07 March 24 21:29 GMT (UK)
It's a very very strong contender Mabel.

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 08 March 24 00:09 GMT (UK)
JenB mentioned Selina Morecock with surname King & Galium mentioned William Morecock with lodger Agnes Hayward

Posting these Electoral Register entries which may relate

Year 1923 - 1931 Address 3 Court 3 Brass Street
Henry Ernest & Selina Elizabeth KING
Samuel MOCOCK

1939 register Birmingham C.B., Warwickshire
Henry E KING May 1880
Eliza KING Apr 1865

Year 1921/22 same address as above
Henry Ernest & Helena KING ( Is this Selina Morecock)
Samuel KING.                      ( Is this Samuel Morecock)

Year 1921 - 1925 address 5 court 18 Hospital Street
William MORECOCK
Agnes HAYWOOD

Year 1929  Address 4 Brass Street
George William & Kathleen Mary MORCOCK

Year 1931
Address 238A Tiverton Road
Agnes HAYWARD (could this be Agnes HayWOOD dau of Agnes?)
George William & Mary Kathleen MORECOCK
Katherine COLLINS

Not found Henry Ernest King yet on 1911 census perhaps Selina might be with him












Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 March 24 08:02 GMT (UK)
JenB mentioned Selina Morecock with surname King & Galium mentioned William Morecock with lodger Agnes Hayward


Not found Henry Ernest King yet on 1911 census perhaps Selina might be with him

Going by Henry's occupation in 1921, in 1911 may be recorded as H King 1880 Baker.

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 08 March 24 08:12 GMT (UK)
JenB mentioned Selina Morecock with surname King & Galium mentioned William Morecock with lodger Agnes Hayward


Not found Henry Ernest King yet on 1911 census perhaps Selina might be with him

Going by Henry's occupation in 1921, in 1911 may be recorded as H King 1880 Baker.

SS

Good find SS

1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWZ4-GYD

Are Elizabeth More age 46 born Birmingham and G William More age 10 born Leeds  - Selina & George Morecock? Elizabeth married 27 yrs 9 Children born 5 living 4 died

Edit to add - Galium lists children of William & Selina Morecock there are 9 and 4 have died


1885 Mary Ann
1887 Jane
1890 William George  - died 1896 aged 6
1892 Kate
1894 Alfred - died 1894
1896 Samuel
1898 Thomas - died 1898
1899 Ellen -died 1899
1902 George William
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: softly softly on Friday 08 March 24 08:23 GMT (UK)
Ladyhawk, I know how I would feel about that 1911 census entry but my opinions are not what counts. I will sit on the fence, anyone else want to stick their head over the wall.   ;D

SS
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 08 March 24 08:24 GMT (UK)
For  info. - there's a Laura King on 1911 census boarder with Elizabeth

1901 census
113, Pritchett Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Elizabeth King   Head   Widow 1833 Birmingham, Warwickshire
Laura King   Daughter   Single 1863   Brass founder's press worker Birmingham
Henry King   Grand son   Single 1881 Baker Birmingham
Title: Re: Where was George in 1911?
Post by: Keitht on Wednesday 13 March 24 15:10 GMT (UK)
Hi folks,

Apologies for my absence, due to a very unpleasant bug which is now receding,

At a quick glace I agree that the King link looks promising. I will need a little time to go through all of your kind responses before offering my final thoughts on that one.