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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: overlandermatt on Friday 01 March 24 16:41 GMT (UK)
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I have a death certificate that I am trying to find some information from.
I am looking for Joseph Pennington's line of work - I think it reads Ship's Corporal and then two letters either RN or RM? All the girls in the family married marines...
The cause of death is Parturition Typhoid Fever 16 days. I'm not really sure what this means - that she died of typhoid 16 days after giving birth? What a tragic tale if so. Life was hard in Victorian times.
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To me it looks more like RA than RM. There is an RM on the line above to compare it with.
RA would be Royal Artillery.
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It means she died after 16 days of Typhoid. The number denotes the length of time someone suffered from an illness.
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1894 article from the Lancet on typhoid fever following parturition: https://ia800708.us.archive.org/view_archive.php?archive=/22/items/crossref-pre-1909-scholarly-works/10.1016%252Fs0140-6736%252801%252959462-3.zip&file=10.1016%252Fs0140-6736%252801%252959839-6.pdf
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To me it looks more like RA than RM. There is an RM on the line above to compare it with.
RA would be Royal Artillery.
Isn’t it more likely to be “RN”?
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I'd go for RN. After all how many Royal Artillery members are likely to be Ship's Corporals? Not many Ships in the Royal Artillery.
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It's RN.
It seems a ship's corporal was a position, not an actual rank. A petty officer assisting the master-at-arms.
https://victorianweb.org/victorian/history/navy/22.html
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Could be this chap - born Rochdale in 1848. He was a Sergeant in 1876 and on his way up to Colour Sergeant:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9732044
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Thanks for the suggestions. I know almost nothing about Joseph Pennington. All I do know is that he married Selina Pope in 1874 then she died in 1876.
The RMLI man has a date of 1871 for when he marries and is a sergeant by 1876... How many Joseph Pennington could there be?
The clue is presumably in the marriage certificate...
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It does look like RA. I wonder if he was attached to a bomb vessel as an ordnance officer?
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It appears that the Royal Marine from Rochdale married Lora Ann Jones in 1871 and had several children including a son Joseph (with him in the 1891 census) who was birth was registered in Medway in 1Q 1878 mmn Jones. SO that doesn't fit too well.
I agree that you need the 1874 marriage record to get a better fix on the identity of Selina Pope's husband.
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There is no rank of Corporal in the Royal navy (The equivalent in the RN is a Leading Hand) but could be Royal marines corporal on ship.
RA corporal
In the Royal Armoured Corps, a Corporal commands an individual tank.
The Household Cavalry and Foot Guards have different ranking systems where the ranks progress directly from lance-corporal to lance-sergeant. The Royal Artillery has the rank of bombardier, while the Royal Navy has the equivalent rank of leading hand or leading rate.
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There is no rank of Corporal in the Royal navy (The equivalent in the RN is a Leading Hand) but could be Royal marines corporal on ship.
Although corporal was not a rank in the Royal Navy, an assistant to the master-at-arms was referred to as the ship's corporal. It was a position, not a rank.
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Joseph Pennington: born Portsmouth 20 October 1846. Joined the navy in 1864. Ship's Corporal 2nd class 1875, Ship's Corporal 1st Class 1877. Pensioned 1884, died 6 October 1890.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/imageviewer/collections/60522/images/43283_adm_188_25-0184
So it's RN on the death cert (or should be) , not RA or RM.
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Thanks Shaun. That's very good to know. I'm sure I can link him to Plymouth at that time now and the wider family story.
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In some navies, a ship's corporal is a position—not the rank—of a petty officer who assists the master-at-arms in his various duties. Historically, a master-at-arms was responsible for the training of soldiers during peace time, or actively involved in leading the defense of a fortification during war time.
In some countries, the term navy police is used for a part of a navy responsible for law enforcement, such as the Royal Navy Police, known as the Royal Navy Regulating Branch until 2007.
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Admiralty, 19th December 1873
The Naval Police will consist of 3 Ratings:-
Master-at-Arms.
Ship's Corporal, 1st Class.
Ship's' Corporal, 2nd Class.
https://sites.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/Navy_List_1879/Ships_Police.html
also
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/story/64611
Tony
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Thanks David and Tony for your explanations. I was unaware of this position and its role prior to posting the question here. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
From a family history context, this is interesting because of the 9 siblings that lived to 'full age', all 3 boys did a full 21 years in the marines and 5 of the 6 girls married marines. The other one married a ship's corporal!
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It was a new one on me too. My father RN (FAA pilot), grandfather army, great grandfather RN and great great grandfather an RM (and all his brothers too). We more or less covered all the services as being a pilot my father was drafted to the RAF to flying training.