RootsChat.Com
Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: SummerCrush on Friday 01 March 24 09:59 GMT (UK)
-
I need help still tracing my 3x great great great Grandfather John Yates he married a lady called Mary Ann White in Wembdon, Somerset back on 3rd November 1868. I do not know John's age at time of marriage as it states full age under the age on the marriage certificate. we know Mary Ann White was born sometime in 1842 in Bridgwater, Somerset and she would have been 26 years of age at time of marriage.
John Yates job occupation at time of marriage was a Clerk
but on his son Edward John Yates birth and baptism original certificates his father John Yates job occupation is listed as Staff Sergeant 6th Foot Regiment. {we also know that Edwards father John Yates was deceased by April 1871 as Mary Ann Yates is registered as a widow when she goes to visit her cousin Caroline Kirk in Cheetham Manchester}
Mary Anne White's father was William George White and his occupation at time of marriage was a Mason
John Yates father is listed as William Yates William Yates and his job occupation is listed as a Hosier on John Yates and Mary Ann White's wedding certificate.
I can not find any record of John Yates and Mary Ann White living together in Bridgwater, Somerset or Wembdon, Somerset before they were married or after they were married.
we know Mary Ann White born 1842 and died 1910 she moved to Manchester and re-married a Quebec, Canada man called Walton Herbert Bell born 1835 and died 1915 and they had 2 daughters and a son.
-
This seems to combine Clerk with a military connection?
28 November 1868: West Somerset Free Press
MARRIAGES
On the 3rd instant, at Wembdon, by the Rev. Henry Trend, Mr. John Yates, clerk to the Military Secretary, Jamaica, to Mary Ann, eldest daughter of Mr. W.G. White, Bridgwater
-
This seems to combine Clerk with a military connection?
28 November 1868: West Somerset Free Press
MARRIAGES On the 3rd instant, at Wembdon, by the Rev. Henry Trend, Mr. John Yates, clerk to the Military Secretary, Jamaica, to Mary Ann, eldest daughter of Mr. W.G. White, Bridgwater
thankyou right one but wrong date
the original marriage certificate for John Yates and Mary Ann White definitely states they were married 3rd November 1868 this marriage certificate which i was given by my Aunty {the daughter of Ida Yates and Christopher Winchester - Ida was the daughter of Edward John Yates and Mary Jane Aykroyd}
Mary Anne White and John Yates marriage certificate that I have reads as follows married in a Married Wembdon, Bridgwater, Somerset in Church Of England Church 3rd November 1868 by Banns
John Yates Father William Yates was a Hosier
Mary Ann White father William George White was a Mason
Reverend was Henry Trend
witnesses were Mary Anne Uncle George White and Eliza Jane Bennett
Mary Anne White and John Yates son Edward John Yates was born 23rd November 1871 and was baptised in 1872 in the St Pauls Parish Church, Blackburn, Lancashire
-
wrong date? I don’t uderstand: the item says 3rd inst., so since the article was published in November, the marriage was November 3rd.
Or am I missing something?
-
wrong date? I don’t uderstand: the item says 3rd inst., so since the article was published in November, the marriage was November 3rd.
Or am I missing something?
yeah sorry i mis-read what you put my apologies
-
if John Yates was indeed clerk to the Military Secretary, Jamaica does that mean he would have possibly died in Jamaica?
-
The next step seems to be to find a death/ burial for John which would give his age.
If the son was born in late November and the mother was a widow by census date 2nd April, then the death must have been registered in, most likely, the first or possibly second quarters of 1871. There is nothing in the deaths overseas on Find my past, so it presumably happened in the UK or possibly Ireland as the 2nd battalion 6th foot regiment were based there in 1870-4. The first battalion was based in India1868- 1871 and was never associated with Jamaica as far as I can tell.
Here are the possibilities in England from the GRO. I did not look at spelling variants such as Yeats etc.
YATES, JOHN 38
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 159
YATES, JOHN 57
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in WETHERBY Volume 09A Page 96
YATES, JOHN 60
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in FOLESHILL AND SOWE Volume 06D Page 305
YATES, JOHN 82
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in BOLTON Volume 08C Page 247
Second quarter
YATES, JOHN 23
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 411
YATES, JOHN 39
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 55
YATES, JOHN 71
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 237
YATES, JOHN 90
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in BLACKBURN Volume 08E Page 349
You can probably eliminate the very old men.
The 6th foot later became the Royal Warwickshire regiment but in 1857 they formed a second battalion in Preston Lancashire, so John may have been recruited there. In 1864 the second battalion were in Jamaica which may explain the newspaper mention of being clerk to the Military Secretary.
Some history and links
http://web.archive.org/web/20071216173149/http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/006RWF.htm
-
if John Yates was indeed clerk to the Military Secretary, Jamaica does that mean he would have possibly died in Jamaica?
My guess is that the Military Secretary was a UK position.
-
The next step seems to be to find a death/ burial for John which would give his age.
If the son was born in late November and the mother was a widow by census date 2nd April, then the death must have been registered in, most likely, the first or possibly second quarters of 1871. There is nothing in the deaths overseas on Find my past, so it presumably happened in the UK or possibly Ireland as the 2nd battalion 6th foot regiment were based there in 1870-4. The first battalion was based in India1868- 1871 and was never associated with Jamaica as far as I can tell.
Here are the possibilities in England from the GRO. I did not look at spelling variants such as Yeats etc.
YATES, JOHN 38
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 159
YATES, JOHN 57
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in WETHERBY Volume 09A Page 96
YATES, JOHN 60
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in FOLESHILL AND SOWE Volume 06D Page 305
YATES, JOHN 82
GRO Reference: 1871 M Quarter in BOLTON Volume 08C Page 247
Second quarter
YATES, JOHN 23
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in OLDHAM Volume 08D Page 411
YATES, JOHN 39
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in ROCHDALE Volume 08E Page 55
YATES, JOHN 71
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in DERBY Volume 07B Page 237
YATES, JOHN 90
GRO Reference: 1871 J Quarter in BLACKBURN Volume 08E Page 349
You can probably eliminate the very old men.
The 6th foot later became the Royal Warwickshire regiment but in 1857 they formed a second battalion in Preston Lancashire, so John may have been recruited there. In 1864 the second battalion were in Jamaica which may explain the newspaper mention of being clerk to the Military Secretary.
Some history and links
http://web.archive.org/web/20071216173149/http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/006RWF.htm
Rochdale would make sense as Mary Ann White was visiting her cousin Caroline Kirk in Cheetham Manchester on the 1871 UK Census and on written on it states she was a widow
and then when Mary Ann White and John Yates son Edward John Yates was born she was living at 27 Bicknell, Street, Blackburn, Lancashire, UK and we know Mary Anne White died in Bacup, Lancashire, UK in 1910
-
Might be worth getting the certificate to confirm/ eliminate- digital copy for £2.50 Is available from GRO now.
-
Notes:
William George White baptised a son William Thomas White 17 October 1860 Bridgwater
Wife was Eliza Dyer formerly Kirk.
Was this Caroline's older sister? Ref: 1841 census
There is a Mary Ann White witness to the marriage of Ellen Kirk to John Drewsett/Drewett 5 November 1856
she says her father is James Kirk - time keeper? Deceased, when on all the baptisms he is a confectioner so should this be shop keeper?
1861 sister Caroline Kirk is living with them.
AMENDED
Witness Mary Ann White cannot be your Mary Ann as she would have been about 14 years old, perhaps William George White had a sister Mary Ann.
So William George White married Eliza Kirk 25 July 1841
Apologies , you said Caroline was her cousin, if Mary Ann White's father William George White married Eliza Kirk sister to Caroline then Caroline would be her aunt.
Just trying to get my head around family dynamics.
-
1861 census Bridgwater Somerset
John Poole Head 43 Horse dealer
Mary A Kirk 54 Confectioner says Mar s/b widowed James Kirke buried 26 May 1852 age 53
*Mary A White 18 grand daughter born Bridgwater Somerset*
James White 7 grandson born Bridgwater Somerset.
-
Mary Ann Kirk died 2 October 1883 she left a will.
Formerly of Barclay Street, lately of West Street both in Bridgwater in the County of Somerset, widow
----------- granted to Charles White grandson and one of the residual legatees.
Might be worth the £1.50 to see if Mary Ann Bell/Yates nee White is mentioned.