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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Banffshire => Topic started by: DrewBD on Thursday 29 February 24 09:22 GMT (UK)
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Hi
My name is Drew and I've been researching my Mothers family tree for several years. Her Grandfather, William Boyd, married Jeanie Coull in 1893. On the marriage certificate, Jeanie's father is named as Benjamin Coull (Master Mariner) and her Mother Mary Coull (nee Peterkin) deceased. I can find no evidence of a marriage between Benjamin and Mary. The only Master Mariner named Benjamin Coull that I can find married Ann Mustard in 1875. I have found the Birth Certificate for Jane Ann Peterkin (I believe from family anecdote that this is probably Jeanie) born in 1868, illegitimate child of Mary Peterkin, in the County of Banffshire, Scotland. Father was not named. I believe I have also found an extract from the 1871 Census showing 2 year old Jane Ann Coull living with her Grandmother Mary Coull (nee Suding).
I have been looking for evidence to support my theory that Benjamin Coull was the father of Marys illegitimate daughter Jane Ann. Can anyone help.
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If you're going to have any chance of cracking this you need to know which parish they lived in, not just which county. Is Jane Ann Peterkin the one born in Mortlach? In which parish did you find her in the 1871 census? Where did she marry William Boyd? Have you found her in any other census?
There are a couple of web sites that specialise in finding evidence of missing fathers.
Try https://www.scottishindexes.com/paternitysearch.aspx and
https://www.oldscottish.com/fathers-found.html
If that doesn't work, there might be something in the Kirk Session records of whichever parish(es) Benjamin and Mary actually lived in.
If it's Mortlach, the Kirk Session records from 1855-1885 (CH2/259/8) and another volume covering 1837-1935 (CH2/259/12) are held by the National Records of Scotland, but are not so far available online, so you would either need to go to General Register House in Edinburgh or get someone to go there on your behalf and look to see whether there is a record of the errant parents being summoned to repent their sin.
I see that in 1871 the household is in the parish of Drainie, Mary Coull being born in Aberdeen and her daughter Mary Alexander in Portgordon, which is in the parish of Enzie, but is sometimes listed in the parish of Rathven.
They were already in Drainie in 1861, the family consisting of Margaret, Ellice, Bengn, Mary, John and Jean. In 1851, in Rathven, there were Margaret, Elus, Benjymine, and Mary. Jane
So it does look very much as if Jean Ann's grandmother was also mother to Benjamin, and thus that it is pretty certain that he was her father.
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Hi Forfarian
This is all brilliant information and advice and pretty much confirms my suspicions.
Jane Ann was born 1868, in the Parish of Mortlach, to Domestic Servant, Mary Peterkin. There is no reference to Marys age or address. Aged 2 in 1871, Jane Ann is living with her Grandmother, Mary Coull in Lossiemouth, Parish of Drainie. 1881, in Drainie aged 12, still with Grandmother Mary Coull. She married William Boyd in the District of Blythswood, Burgh of Glasgow in 1893.
I would like to establish Marys parentage as this opens up a whole new world for me to explore. I note in the 1841 Census, a Mary Peterkin, then aged 9, born to John and Ann Peterkin also in the Parish of Mortlach but she seems to disappear from subsequent Census. The 1851 Census reveals another Mary Peterkin, Head of Household, aged 29 and an Innkeeper in Dufftown. She, in turn has a daughter Mary, aged 5. It's not clear to me which Mary could be Jane Anns mother. I'd be grateful for any further advice. Drew
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To help rule in or out;
MARY Peterkin bapt 31 Aug 1845, Mortlach Church, Mortlach
Parents JOHN/MARY Peterkin
Birth 23 Aug 1845
Mother surname SHEPHERD
(FreeREG)
1861 Census
Balvenie St, Mortlach
Mary Petriken 38 Head Householder born Banff
Mary Petriken 15 Daughter Scholar born Mortlach***
Rosana Rose 10 Daughter Scholar born Mortlach
1851 Census
Mary Peterkin 29 Head Inn Keeper
Harriote Peterkin 14 Stepdaughter (Step Daughter)
Margret Peterkin 10 Stepdaughter (Step Daughter)
Mary Peterkin 5 Daughter****
Rosana Rose 4 Mo Daughter
So second Wife for John I presume as;
1841 we have;
John Peterkin 30 Carrier*
Ann Peterkin 30
John Peterkin 6
Henrietta Peterkin 4
Thomas Peterkin 2
Margaret Peterkin 1
Henrietta Maria was bapt 23 Dec 1836 to JOHN/ANNE nee WATT
(FreeREG)
Marriage;
8 Jun. 1843 Kintore, Aberdeen, Scotland
John PETERKIN to Mary SHEPHERD
(Anc.)
Trish :)
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The Mary 1845 above may have married William Burnett Ramsey Greig 1878 London, image on Anc
Father JOHN a Carrier, deceased
1891 in Fulham we have;
William B Greig 42 Head
Mary Greig 43 Wife
Elizabeth B Greig 8 Daughter
Mary Peterkin 68 Mother-in-law
2 Marys born Scotland*
1881 in Fulham;
William Greig 32 Head
Mary Greig 33 Wife born Banffshire*
Mary Peterkin 58 Mother in Law born Banffshire
John Young 15 Boarder
1871 back in Mortlach
Mary Peterkin 47 Head
John Young 6 Grandson
Cant pin down Mary Jnr in 1871
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Hi Trish
From a posting back in July 2009....
(Re: Peterkin, Mary- Born Scotland abt. 1845 probably Aberdeenshire or Banffshire), I can see that a Mary Peterkin, aged 25 in 1870, arrived in Montreal, Canada as an immigrant from Scotland and was registered as a Servant. This could possibly explain why we don't see her in the 1871 Census and beyond. As Mary's status was Domestic Servant at the time of Jane Ann Peterkin's birth in 1868, it's not unreasonable to assume that this is the same Mary who emigrated to Canada two years later leaving her daughter to be brought up by Benjamin's mother, Mary Coull, in Lossiemouth.
I've previously contacted and searched the site www.oldscottish.com/fathers-found, but received no reply. I will also contact the General Register House in Edinburgh to arrange a visit. I'm based in Ayrshire, Scotland so not too far away.
Thank-you everyone for all the contributions. I think I'm much further forward now than I was a couple of days ago.
:) :) Drew
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Does Jane Ann's birthplace give the actual address where she was born in 1868? Though this might not be all that useful as the family clearly moved a lot.
In the 1861 census the family were in Balvenie Street, Dufftown
In the 1871 census the family were in Castle Street, Dufftown
In the 1875 valuation roll Mrs Peterkin was in Conval Street, Dufftown
All, of course, in the parish of Mortlach.
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From the Birth Certificate
Jane Ann Peterkin
Born - 18th October 1868 (illegitimate)
Place of Birth - Dufftown, Parish of Mortlach
Mother - Mary Peterkin - Domestic Servant
There is no specific address.
Hadn't thought to look at the Valuation Roll. Just taken a look and I can't see Mrs Peterkin in Conval Street in 1875 using ScotlandsPeople. Could the person you see be the same Mary Peterkin, aged 47 and a Mill Worker, living in Castle Street, Dufftown with her Grandson John Young, recorded in the 1871 Census.
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Quite possibly, but perhaps not.
See screenshots.
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Ah. I searched specifically for Mary Peterkin in the Valuation Rolls. Yes, I've now found the same details in ScotlandsPeople Valuation Roll searches.
As it's Mrs Peterkin, this is her married name. Was Jane Ann's mother single / unmarried. That was always my assumption.
I'm now trying to identify the parents of 6yo John Young, Grandson of Mary Peterkin in the Mortlach 1871 Census. Birth place, also Mortlach. There's no exact match and all I can find is a James Young born 1865 to John and Jane Young (nee Stewart) In Glenrinnes. ???
Elizabeth Peterkin, in 1885, at Gordon Villa, 43 Castle Street in Dufftown is also widowed and lives on the "Intertest of Money" in a large house with Lodgers. Not convinced there's a link to Jane Ann here.
Think I need to find out more about the Mary Peterkin who emigrated to Canada and will try to contact poster from 2009.
Drew
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It's clear enough that Jane Ann's mother Mary was unmarried when Jane Ann was born. If she had been married, it would have been assumed that her husband was the child's father, and his name would have been on the birth certificate. The absence of a father's name on a Scottish birth certificate always indicates that the mother was unmarried.
However I don't think the son of John Young and Jane Stewart is Mary Peterkin's grandson. This couple had George in 1849, William 1852, David 1857, Alexander 1859, Peter 1862 and Donald 1865. I have yet to find the record you refer to of James Young being born to them in 1865.
If John Young was aged 6 on the day of the 1871 census, he is more likely to have been born in 1864 than in 1865, because the census was taken a quarter of the way through the year, at the beginning of April, and three-quarters of people would not yet have had a birthday in 1871.
There is a birth of John Peterkin in Mortlach on 12 December 1864, mother Mary Peterkin, father not named. So it looks as if this John must be the grandson, a half-brother of Jane Ann Peterkin or Coull.
Given that a widowed mother-in-law Mary Peterkin of the right age, born in Banffshire, is in the household of William Greig in 1881 and 1891, I don't think you need to look to Canada to find your Jeanie Coull's mother. But it will do no harm to check out the emigrant.
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Don't know how much you have on Benjamin Coull already, Drew.
Some details here for him http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/people/people_report_view.asp?REF_ID=NM023850
His entry on findagrave www.findagrave.com/memorial/202950688/benjamin-coull
There are a Will and also Inventory entries for him on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk where he is mentioned as: retired shipmaster, Rock Cottage, Lossiemouth, d. 19/12/1919 at Lossiemouth, testate.
A small Family Search tree for him www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/97HV-PH9
Monica
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From Trish's earlier census entries for William and Mary Greig, there was a daughter showing on the 1891 census. Her birth registration confirming her mother's maiden below:
GREIG, ROSANNA ELIZABETH
Mother's Maiden Surname: PETERKIN
GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in FULHAM Volume 01A Page 293
William Greig is showing as widowed by 1901. He was listed as 52 and born in Kincardineshire. He is living with his daughter, showing as Rosanna E Greig, aged 18 and born in Fulham.
Daughter married in Chelsea area in 1902, a Charles Frederick L Bryant. The 1911 census shows them together with one son called William in Fulham. Charles's occupation was that of a Stationary Engineman like her father William Greig.
Charles Bryant died in 1935. Rosanna married again in Fulham in 1948 to a Harry Fenton.
Rosanna died at the age of 86 in 1st Qrt 1969. Death registered in Hillingdon, Greater London.
Monica
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Possible death for Mary:
Mary Greig
Aged 48
2nd Qrt 1897 Fulham
Vol 1a/ Pg 162
And for husband William:
William Greig
Aged 65
2nd Qrt 1914 Fulham
Vol 1a/ Pg 362
A further possible death for Mary's mother:
Peterkin Mary
Age 73
4th Qrt 1897 Fulham
Vol 1a/ Pg 187
Monica
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Thank you for finding all that Monica and Forfarian.
I haven't been on here much due to a family situation.
So very happy that this has continued with extra info.
Trish :)
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Hi MonicaL
Thank you for joining the conversation. I'm a little bit overwhelmed at the amount of information that everyone has provided. Can I say thank you again to all who have contributed. Huge respect for all of you.
Firstly, my earlier reference to a James Young born 1865 was, of course, wrong. It should have read Donald Young and had no connection to the family.
The Benjamin Coull connection was quite straight forward. As father, his name is on my G. Grandmothers marriage certificate and I've been able to gather a lot of information.
My Mum and her twin brother never knew this story as they both passed away a couple of years ago. I wonder how they would have reacted to this news. The name Benjamin Peterkin had even been invented as my G. Grandmothers Father. I guess our ancestors never imagined a time when we could all sit in comfort at home and trawl through centuries of family connections. How difficult must it have been for a young Mary Peterkin in the mid 19th century giving birth to two illegitimate children.
If I can summarise the findings, please tell me if I get anything wrong..
Mary Peterkin born 1845 to John Peterkin and Mary Shepherd (m.1843 - Johns 2nd marriage)
We find Mary Senior, as Head of Household in 1851 an Inn Keeper (Dufftown) and again in 1861 (Balvenie St, Dufftown). Mary Jnr now aged 15.
In 1864, young Domestic Servant, Mary, gives birth to illegitimate son named John Young.
In 1868, an illegitimate daughter, Jane Ann, we now know was fathered by Benjamin Coull.
We see Jane Ann Coull, aged 2 in 1871, with her Grandmother, Mary Coull (Benjamin's Mother) and again, aged 12, still with her Grandmother in 1881.
Meanwhile, in 1871, we see Mary Peterkin Snr, in Dufftown with her 6 yo grandson John. Mary Jnr appears to have left the area.
But in 1881, we find a Mary Greig (nee Peterkin - aged 33) in Fulham, married to William Greig. Also there is Mary Peterkin Snr with her daughters 15 yo son John Young.
By 1891, Mary and William Greig have an 8 yo daughter, Rosanna Elizabeth. Mary Snr is still with them.
By 1901, Mary Jnr has passed away. Presumably so has Mary Snr. Widowed William Greig (in 1901 Census listed as Kincardineshire born) is living with his 18 yo daughter Rosanna and still in Fulham.
Wow. I'd never have got here without all your help. Thank you all so much.
Drew
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Good summary, Drew :)
Monica