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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 10:21 GMT (UK)

Title: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 10:21 GMT (UK)
Hope you can help? 

I'm looking for Ivy (sometimes Ivy Isobel) Caldwell's birth in England in 1891. 

According to US census records, she was born in 1891 and immigrated to the US in 1893.  Married Robert Barber Goodman, a lumberman, in 1914 but I can only see the marriage index so little extra detail.  Later divorced and married Raymond J Plunkett.

One census stated 'unknown' date of immigration, so 1893 might be a guess by her.  Her age varies a bit between censuses too, so 1891 could be wrong too.  I haven't found her in a Caldwell family on a passenger list yet.

A US social security transcript states she was a child of William Caldwell and Janet Brown (Janet seems too modern a name so it could be a transcription error?), but I've found a marriage with Jane Brown registered in Wakefield in Q1 1891, which is why I've posted in the West Riding board.. However I wonder if Jane Brown wasn't her birth mother.

I can find an Ivy Caldwell with a birth registered in Settle in Q3 1892, with MMN of Kelly, and there is a William Caldwell marrying an Emily Kelly in Rochdale in 1889.  There is an Emily Caldwell dying soon after, but then there is also an Emily Caldwell born in the area so without getting a lot of certificates it's hard to know.

The other Ivy (Olive M) Caldwell, born Greenwich, appears in various records continuing to live in England so she is not the right Ivy.

Of course, her birth may not have been registered as Ivy or Isobel and these were just her favoured names or nicknames, which does make it more difficult!  And she may have invented/guessed parental names too if something happened to them when she was quite young, so she never knew their exact names.

Edit - posted on the immigration board too https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880516.0
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 19 February 24 10:38 GMT (UK)
Can't help with where she was born, however there are a couple of mentions of her graduating "First, honour in scholarship" from the Francis Shimer School. ("Ivy Isobel Caldwell, Chicago")
eg Chicago Tribune
8 Jun 1911

If she was a student  there in 1911, she should be in the 1910 census somewhere nearby, to see who she is living with. Can't readily see her.

Robert Barber GOODMAN was managing director of the Goodman Lumber Co. On their divorce in 1930 he was described as a millionaire.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 11:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks for those records - certainly a lead re 1910 census so will take another look for her.  I wonder if her surname was recorded wrongly if in another household?

Although in the 1920 census it says she didn't go to school. Perhaps school means college or higher ed.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 11:50 GMT (UK)
Nothing for William Caldwell or Ivy in the 1900 or 1910 US censuses.  There is a William Caldwell but born in Canada and in much earlier censuses.

Of course William could have died/divorced and Jane Caldwell nee Brown re-married then emigrated to the USA, or re-married once in the USA.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 12:28 GMT (UK)
https://archive.org/details/FrancesShimerQuarterlyVol.3No.1/page/n57/mode/2up?view=theater has an Ivy Caldwell listed on p58 with honours.

Listed as Ivy Isabel Caldwell later as a pupil up to 1st April 1911 on a later page.

Also listed as a pupil to 1st April 1910 https://archive.org/details/FrancesShimerQuarterlyVol.3No.1/page/n57/mode/2up?view=theater

Not listed in June 1909, but mentioned as a cast member of a play in the Oct 1909 newsletter https://archive.org/details/FrancesShimerQuarterlyVol.1No.3/page/n33/mode/2up

In the newsletter section Scattered Family for issue June 1914, 'Ivy Caldwell Goodman '11 sends a very enthusiastic description of her home in Goodman, Wis.'
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 12:32 GMT (UK)
Do those reports suggest a later birthdate than 1891?  She would have been 20yrs old in 1911

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 12:36 GMT (UK)
Good point. I need to read one of those school prospectuses thoroughly to see what ages were accepted.  I did read that they offered a junior high 4year course, and another course, but she only appears for 2 years. Need to check!

Edit: just seen your 'ignore'.  It's hard to know what 'school' means in the US isn't it?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 12:52 GMT (UK)
If it was the equivalent of a university - it would probably fit in with an 1891 birthyear
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 12:56 GMT (UK)
I've been trying to find some of the more unusual names on that list on the 1900 or 1910 census but the only ones I've found that "stand alone" are Laurel Gillogly who appears to have been born 1893 and Iona Bickelhaupt - 1889
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 16:28 GMT (UK)
The school was for boarders (but perhaps day pupils too?) so there must be a 1910 census entry for the place. She might be on that but it  won’t help with family. And where is she in the 1900 census? Perhaps her family went to Canada first before settling in the US?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 February 24 18:33 GMT (UK)
Not sure this helps ...............

California Death Index

Ivy Caldwell Plunkett - Ivy Caldwell Caldwell

Birth Date   29 Mar 1891   Other Country
Death Date   14 Dec 1996 Death Place   Kern
Father's Surname   Caldwell

U.S., Social Security Death Index, 1935-2014

Ivy C. Plunkett Birth Date   29 Mar 1891
Issue year   1963 Issue State   Wisconsin
Last Residence   92263, Palm Springs, Riverside, California
Death Date   14 Dec 1996


Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 18:35 GMT (UK)
That would make her 105yrs old when she died  - WOW

Another post here

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880516.msg7529395#msg7529395
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 18:46 GMT (UK)
1950 US census gives birthyear 1895 & 1940 is 1894

There is an 1895 birth in Bethnal Green but she can be found with parents up to 1911
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 19:08 GMT (UK)
Yes that one is the Ivy Olive M Caldwell, registered birth in Greenwich.  MMN Pain.

Sandra, yes I found the details of her second marriage to Raymond J Plunkett.

CaroleW - Ivy was 27 in the 1920 census, 39 in the 1930 census (and age at marriage of 24). 1940 census she was 46.  Need to check the actual census dates as that could explain slight discrepancies but not these variations.

maddys52 - when you found the report of her divorce from Robert B Goodman (who was a lot older than her), was there mention of any previous marriage of his and a daughter, or just his two sons with Ivy?  I ask because there is a Robert B Goodman marrying a Pernetta E Schmid (her father was from Prussia and a doctor practising in New York; mother a musician/music teacher) on 7 May 1901 in White Plains. In various censuses she is shown as born in the US (New York). In 1900 Federal census shows born July 1871, and 28 yrs old. In 1905 she was at her family's address with a 2 year old daughter, of Pernetta E Goodman.  She's with the Schmids in 1910, married. In 1920 she is with the Schmids and shown as divorced.

Just wondering as in Ivy's ex-husband's marriage record to Dorothy O Thomas 5 Jun 1942 in Iron, Michigan when he was 69, a lumberman, states he was married once, not twice. Dorothy was a secretary, 37, not previously married.



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 19:12 GMT (UK)
That would make her 105yrs old when she died  - WOW


Surely that would have been in the local papers?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 19 February 24 19:17 GMT (UK)
No - the 1895 birth is just Ivy Caldwell - no other christian names www.freebmd.org.uk

A tree on Ancestry has her birthdate as 29.3.1891 London??  No supporting birth reg on freebmd
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 February 24 19:19 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this has significance - ?? Wrong surname for wife ??


There was a William Caldwell born 1850  Govan, Renfrewshire, Scotland  died Apr-June 1892  Salford, Lancashire. Married to Jane Cowie - June 1850 - St John District, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.  Children listed but they don't go as far as Ivy ??

died 30 December 1913 - 6 Suffolk Street Glasgow Scotland

ancestry tree - if you have access to ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/80809469/person/48522636819/facts

Sandra

Added marriage -
Name   Jane Cowie
Marriage Date   30 Aug 1872
Marriage Place   Tradeston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
Spouse   William Caldwell
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 February 24 19:22 GMT (UK)
???

1900 census St Marys Orphanage (From Page 11 to 45 Inclusive) Court Street Dover Ward 4, Strafford, New Hampshire.

Margaret Calwell (Caldwell) born May 1885 - inmate.

BMD

Births Registered  Jun 1885 
Caldwell    Margaret        Salford    8d   157

1891 Salford Lancashire  (date of this census was 5 th April 1891)

William Caldwell   40 Janet Caldwell   40
Jane Caldwell   18
William Caldwell   14 George Caldwell   12
David Caldwell   8 Margaret Caldwell   6
Frederick Caldwell   4 Sarah Caldwell   1

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 19:38 GMT (UK)
A tree on Ancestry has her birthdate as 29.3.1891 London??  No supporting birth reg on freebmd
That birth date appeared on some US official records so has found its way onto some trees.  I haven't found her either on freeBMD or in the GRO, other than the Settle birth registration with MMN Kelly.

Sometimes she's listed as Ivy Goodman or Plunkett, sometimes Ivy + initial I.  Also Ivy C (for Caldwell).  Isobel may well not have been registered as her middle name.  I think people sometimes acquire middle names as they take their fancy.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 19:42 GMT (UK)
Not sure if this has significance - ?? Wrong surname for wife ??


There was a William Caldwell born 1850  Govan, Renfrewshire, Scotland  died Apr-June 1892  Salford, Lancashire. Married to Jane Cowie - June 1850 - St John District, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.  Children listed but they don't go as far as Ivy ??

died 30 December 1913 - 6 Suffolk Street Glasgow Scotland

ancestry tree - if you have access to ancestry

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/80809469/person/48522636819/facts

Sandra

Thanks for that, I'll take a good look. 

I don't set much store by her alleged mother's name.  If she really did travel to the US when only 2 years old, and if her father died young, she could easily mix up names or just invent something for official forms.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 19:44 GMT (UK)
???

1900 census St Marys Orphanage (From Page 11 to 45 Inclusive) Court Street Dover Ward 4, Strafford, New Hampshire.

Margaret Calwell (Caldwell) born May 1885 - inmate.

BMD

Births Registered  Jun 1885 
Caldwell    Margaret        Salford    8d   157

1891 Salford Lancashire

William Caldwell   40 Janet Caldwell   40
Jane Caldwell   18
William Caldwell   14 George Caldwell   12
David Caldwell   8 Margaret Caldwell   6
Frederick Caldwell   4 Sarah Caldwell   1

Sandra

Now that looks promising doesn't it?  I had wondered if she'd been shipped abroad via the workhouse and Maria Rye type people if destitute, hence pretty vague about her origins.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 19 February 24 19:47 GMT (UK)

Where are all these children in 1901 ?

Did Ivy go to Canada as a home child under a different name ?

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 20:08 GMT (UK)
That's the next step - find those children 10 years later.

This query began because I have a DNA link with someone in the US who is the great grandson of Ivy.  So it seemed the simplest to discover Ivy's origins to see if anything obvious popped up.  But nothing's simple is it?  The link could well be on his paternal side instead, but that's even harder since his father was adopted.

So I now know what to do with the next bad weather day (or two).  ;D
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 19 February 24 20:16 GMT (UK)
I've had a quick look at some of the children who marry later in the Salford/Manchester area, giving William Caldwell bricklayer as their father.  So they didn't go abroad en masse.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 20 February 24 01:34 GMT (UK)

maddys52 - when you found the report of her divorce from Robert B Goodman (who was a lot older than her), was there mention of any previous marriage of his and a daughter, or just his two sons with Ivy?  I ask because there is a Robert B Goodman marrying a Pernetta E Schmid (her father was from Prussia and a doctor practising in New York; mother a musician/music teacher) on 7 May 1901 in White Plains. In various censuses she is shown as born in the US (New York). In 1900 Federal census shows born July 1871, and 28 yrs old. In 1905 she was at her family's address with a 2 year old daughter, of Pernetta E Goodman.  She's with the Schmids in 1910, married. In 1920 she is with the Schmids and shown as divorced.

Just wondering as in Ivy's ex-husband's marriage record to Dorothy O Thomas 5 Jun 1942 in Iron, Michigan when he was 69, a lumberman, states he was married once, not twice. Dorothy was a secretary, 37, not previously married.

Unfortunately no mention of any previous marriage or earlier children. I can't attach the image here, but if you would like to see a copy, send my a pm.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 09:06 GMT (UK)

There are snippets of newspaper cutting which mention Miss Ivy Caldwell or Ivy Isabel Caldwell but always "of Chicago"

This earlier one was interesting.

The Woodstock Sentinel
Woodstock, Illinois 
Thu, 4 Aug 1910 Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-woodstock-sentinel/141682497/

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 20 February 24 09:14 GMT (UK)
That's interesting Sandra.

There is this Florence McDOWELL at Woodstock, Illinois in 1910, mother Susan has a couple of boarders (not Ivy CALDWELL though)  :-\
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MK6W-Y1N
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 09:52 GMT (UK)
There are a few instances where Ivy Caldwell appears as a guest of other people  :-\

The Champaign Daily News
Champaign, Illinois
Wed, 2 Aug 1911
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-daily-news/141683011/
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-daily-news/141683030/

The Champaign Daily News
Champaign, Illinois •
Fri, 28 Jul 1911
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-daily-news/141683041/

The Champaign County News
Champaign, Illinois •
Sat, 28 Jun 1913
Page 6

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-county-news/141683052/

The Champaign County News
Champaign, Illinois •
Sat, 20 Jul 1912
Page 6

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-county-news/141683062/

The Champaign Daily News
Champaign, Illinois •
Thu, 25 Jul 1912
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-champaign-daily-news/141683082/

The Champaign County News
Champaign, Illinois •
Sat, 27 Jul 1912
Page 6

The Champaign County News
Champaign, Illinois •
Sat, 27 Jul 1912
Page 6


Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:06 GMT (UK)
Sandra you're on fire with this!

It's intriguing that Ivy's family could send her to this private school, although she did have a scholarship I imagine there were still some expenses?

Wonder if there's an archive of admissions records somewhere.

And I see from another thread that you've kindly offered to look up newspaper articles so if you find time, please could you look for her marriages, children's birth/marriage announcements?  I'll send you a DM.


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:10 GMT (UK)

Was hoping this would turn up a little more information but sadly not  :-\

Wouldn't we like to know where she might have visited ???  :-\ :-\ :) :)

UK and Ireland, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960 arriving 21 st June 1934 Plymouth England on the Lafayette.

Raymond P Plunkett aged 38 years - Investments -
Ivy I Plunkett aged 37 years - no occupation.

New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957 - departed 23 rd August - arrived 30 August 1934. On the Deutschland.
Last address in UK -  Stayed at the Piccadilly Hotel. London.

Ivy Plunkett 37 years (makes her 1897) - naturalised by marriage 1917 ??
Raymond P Plunkett 38 years - native of US  - 21 st July 1896 - Rhinelander. Wisconsin.
Going home to 815 10 th Street. Wansaw. Wisconsin.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:21 GMT (UK)

Including this because of the mention of Winifred  Seeger. Finding that I was looking at the same things over and over   ::) ::)
- Looked at Winifred earlier - 1910 census (below) says Winifred and sister Geneva were at a boarding school.  Winifred was also roughly the same age as Ivy.

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois 
Thu, 8 Jun 1911
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141699769/

1910 census Rawles, Mills, Iowa.

Hugo W Seeger 49 Head
Anna E Seeger 43 Wife
Roy E Seeger 22 Son
Winiford V Seeger   17   Daughter. Boarding School.
Geneva P Seeger 14 Daughter. Boarding School.
Frances M Seeger 4 Daughter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVP-9MN5?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMGMG-862&action=view

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:25 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sandra, I was going to send you a DM but your inbox is full so it wouldn't go.

It seems Ivy moved in wealthy circles, marrying a millionaire lumberman, then Mr Plunkett working in a Bond House according to one of the censuses I looked at.  The passenger info supports that. Interesting that she becomes younger with each record! Although 1891 could be a misreading of 1897 originally perhaps?

Ivy married Robert Goodman on 25 Apr 1914 (in Chicago, Cook, Illinois) so became naturalized on marriage to a US citizen. 

Maddys52 unfortunately saved the wrong article about their divorce and was making use of the free weekend access to the newspaper archives, so cannot see it again.

It would be interesting if you could find it for me please?  I don't know the year, but she remarried in 23 Jun 1933 in Cook, Illinois to Raymond J Plunkett.

Also are there any reports of a Robert B Goodman marrying a Pernetta E Schmid (her father was from Prussia and a doctor practising in New York; mother a musician/music teacher) on 7 May 1901 in White Plains. In various censuses she is shown as born in the US (New York). In 1900 Federal census shows born July 1871, and 28 yrs old. In 1905 she was at her family's address with a 2 year old daughter, of Pernetta E Goodman.  She's with the Schmids in 1910, married. In 1920 she is with the Schmids and shown as divorced.

Just wondering as in Ivy's ex-husband's marriage record to Dorothy O Thomas 5 Jun 1942 in Iron, Michigan when he was 69, a lumberman, states he was married once, not twice. Dorothy was a secretary, 37, not previously married.

Thanks very much.

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:28 GMT (UK)

Including this because of the mention of Winifred  Seeger. Finding that I was looking at the same things over and over   ::) ::)
- Looked at Winifred earlier - 1910 census (below) says Winifred and sister Geneva were at a boarding school.  Winifred was also roughly the same age as Ivy.

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois 
Thu, 8 Jun 1911
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141699769/

1910 census Rawles, Mills, Iowa.

Hugo W Seeger 49 Head
Anna E Seeger 43 Wife
Roy E Seeger 22 Son
Winiford V Seeger   17   Daughter. Boarding School.
Geneva P Seeger 14 Daughter. Boarding School.
Frances M Seeger 4 Daughter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVP-9MN5?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMGMG-862&action=view

Sandra

Wonder if I can filter the 1910 census to find girls at boarding schools? It's different to the UK where only the people at the address are recorded.  I've been trying to find the census record for the school itself but possibly too difficult to do.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:34 GMT (UK)
1950 US census gives birthyear 1895 & 1940 is 1894

There is an 1895 birth in Bethnal Green but she can be found with parents up to 1911

Sorry, earlier I said this was Ivy Olive M, but in fact her birth was registered in Greenwich. She married in England in 1917 so not her either.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:48 GMT (UK)

Did look through one sequence of pages (19) for Mount Carroll - found a few teachers listed at home but with occupation of teachers at public school/teachers of music etc.  Nothing for the College itself but it was a hurried quick look.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:52 GMT (UK)

The son Owen - only marriage application

Salinas Morning Post
Salinas, California •
Wed, 20 May 1942
Page 10

https://www.newspapers.com/article/salinas-morning-post/141700814/

Salinas Morning Post
Salinas, California •
Sun, 7 Jun 1942
Page 14

https://www.newspapers.com/article/salinas-morning-post/141702302/

OBIT  (with photograph)

The Desert Sun
Palm Springs, California •
Sun, 31 Jul 2005
Page 30

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-desert-sun/141704044/

FIND A GRAVE

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/94290408/owen-franklin-goodman

spouse -

Marion Ann Shivel Goodman - 1919 - 1990

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/94290405/marion_ann_goodman

Son -

Owen Franklin Goodman - 1943 - 1972

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/94290407/owen_franklin_goodman
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 17:58 GMT (UK)
Father Robert B Goodman - obituary 1957

The Sheboygan Press
Sheboygan, Wisconsin •
Wed, 11 Sept 1957
Page 18

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sheboygan-press/141702447/

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois •
Thu, 12 Sept 1957
Page 40

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141702666/

Stevens Point Journal
Stevens Point, Wisconsin •
Wed, 11 Sept 1957
Page 13

https://www.newspapers.com/article/stevens-point-journal/141702782/

Green Bay Press-Gazette
Green Bay, Wisconsin •
Sat, 13 Jun 1942
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/green-bay-press-gazette/141708322/

The Sheboygan Press - Photo
Sheboygan, Wisconsin •
Fri, 15 May 1936
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-sheboygan-press/141709613/



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 18:04 GMT (UK)


Daughter from first marriage - Pernetta Cottrell -

husbands obit - Casper (with photograph)

The Ithaca Journal
Ithaca, New York •
Mon, 26 Feb 1968
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-ithaca-journal/141703031/

marriage -

Reading Times
Reading, Pennsylvania •
Sat, 13 Sept 1924
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/reading-times/141703121/

FIND A GRAVE

1895 - 1968

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/221918522/casper-lehman-cottrell

Erneste Goodman Cottrell

1902 - 1996 (with obituary attached)

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/221918973/erneste_cottrell

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 18:22 GMT (UK)
Good finds, thank you.

So Robert B Goodman was married x3, despite only owning up to one previous when he married wife no. 3, Dorothy.

I had wondered if it was a coincidence that Ivy and Robert lived in Goodman, but the obit explains that.

If only there was more about Ivy!  Did she have an obit at all?


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 18:44 GMT (UK)

E mail box should be ok.

Ivy elusive at moment as usual

New-York Tribune
New York, New York •
Wed, 8 May 1901
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/new-york-tribune/141705976/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 20 February 24 19:09 GMT (UK)

Mr Robert B Goodman - 1873 Pennsylvania - 5 June 1942 - 69 years - residence Marinette Wisconsin.
Lumberjack.
Marriage License Place   Iron - Marriage Date   5 Jun 1942
Marriage Place   Stambaugh, Iron, Michigan, USA
Residence Place   Marinette, Wisconsin
Father    Robert F Goodman - Mother    Margaret Allan
Spouse    Dorothy O Thomas - aged 37 years - secretary - father Joshua Thomas and mother Amelia Blewett.

Dorothy's Mother

Ironwood Daily Globe
Ironwood, Michigan •
Wed, 11 Aug 1948
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/ironwood-daily-globe/141708168/



Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 19:55 GMT (UK)
You're doing well aren't you?  So frustrating about Ivy - you'd think there'd be mention of her winning the scholarship to the boarding school wouldn't you?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 20 February 24 20:40 GMT (UK)

Including this because of the mention of Winifred  Seeger. Finding that I was looking at the same things over and over   ::) ::)
- Looked at Winifred earlier - 1910 census (below) says Winifred and sister Geneva were at a boarding school.  Winifred was also roughly the same age as Ivy.

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois 
Thu, 8 Jun 1911
Page 8

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141699769/

1910 census Rawles, Mills, Iowa.

Hugo W Seeger 49 Head
Anna E Seeger 43 Wife
Roy E Seeger 22 Son
Winiford V Seeger   17   Daughter. Boarding School.
Geneva P Seeger 14 Daughter. Boarding School.
Frances M Seeger 4 Daughter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVP-9MN5?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMGMG-862&action=view

Sandra

Wonder if I can filter the 1910 census to find girls at boarding schools? It's different to the UK where only the people at the address are recorded.  I've been trying to find the census record for the school itself but possibly too difficult to do.

I've just looked at all 19 pages for Mount Carroll township for 1910 and it's all family households. Wonder if institutions are listed separately.  The school was rural wasn't it so perhaps not under the township.

Edit: just realised from the heading across the top (Ancestry's not the census) that there are a lot of other districts, so looking at those now.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 21 February 24 00:27 GMT (UK)
It does seem frustrating not being able to find the College in the 1910 census. I note on this wiki for Shimer College they don't have a link to the 1910 either.  :-\
https://shimercollege.fandom.com/wiki/Census
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 21 February 24 00:43 GMT (UK)
Actually, this looks like the school in 1910 - William McKEE is the Dean. No Ivy CALDWELL listed, only 2 pupils included on census night.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVH-9WM
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 10:45 GMT (UK)
Divorce...........Robert and Ivy......

Kenosha News
Kenosha, Wisconsin •
Tue, 7 Oct 1930
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/kenosha-news/141758485/

Marshfield News-Herald
Marshfield, Wisconsin •
Tue, 7 Oct 1930
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/marshfield-news-herald/141758535/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 10:53 GMT (UK)
R J Plunkett - obit with photograph

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Wed, 18 Nov 1964
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141758607/

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Wed, 18 Nov 1964
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141758629/

Sandra

ADDED -

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Sat, 15 Jul 1933
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141776124/
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 11:15 GMT (UK)
Actually, this looks like the school in 1910 - William McKEE is the Dean. No Ivy CALDWELL listed, only 2 pupils included on census night.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RVH-9WM
Oh well found!  So it's under Salem township, not Mount Carroll.  And district 9.  Image 14.

When I looked for the date, it was enumerated 11th May, but other pages were different dates.  So does that mean that census date varied, or it was a fixed date but then compiled on other days as the enumerator worked through the entries?

I was thinking that the census date might have been during a school holiday, hence not many pupils?  So the Seeger daughters who were listed as 'at boarding school' didn't mean they were at school for the census, but at home. The boarding school comment was just to explain occupation?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 11:22 GMT (UK)
Yayee - progress.  Sadly I need to go out.  Hopefully you will find Mrs Jane Caldwell in Chicago  :) :)
413 Wrightwood Avenue. Chicago.


Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois •
Thu, 30 Apr 1914
Page 11

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141759000/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 11:26 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much Sandra - and well searched.

The Goodman sons are confusing - there were three on an early census, Owen, Franklin both same age, and Robert. Then later there was Oliver (error?) and Robert, and later referred to as Owen Franklin - so perhaps there were only ever two sons not three. Owen and Robert shown as stepsons to Raymond J Plunkett. So presumably John=Owen.  Confusing family and it doesn't help a jot with Ivy's origins at all.   >:(

Thanks too for the Plunkett obit.  So he was connected with the lumber business. 

Still need to find Ivy on a 1910 and 1900 census - I've tried various wild cards in case her surname was mispelled or misheard but nothing.  There are a few William Caldwells, including one with a daughter Ivy but turns out not her.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 11:26 GMT (UK)
One more.......

City Directory

Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell  - 15 E Washington
Residence Year   1913
Street Address   b 413 Wrightwood av
Residence Place   Chicago, Illinois, USA
Publication Title   Chicago, Illinois, City Directory, 1913

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 11:27 GMT (UK)

Yayee - progress.  Sadly I need to go out.  Hopefully you will find Mrs Jane Caldwell in Chicago  :) :)
4134 Wrightwood Avenue. Chicago.


Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois •
Thu, 30 Apr 1914
Page 11

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141759000/

Sandra

Just seen your latest post - brilliant!  Getting closer, thanks so very very much.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 12:04 GMT (UK)
One more.......

City Directory

Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell  - 15 E Washington
Residence Year   1913
Street Address   b 413 Wrightwood av
Residence Place   Chicago, Illinois, USA
Publication Title   Chicago, Illinois, City Directory, 1913

Sandra

Via Ancestry, the 1913 Chicago city directory, has
Caldwell, Jane wid Wm h rear 2710 Fulton

If Wm refers to her late husband, then that's promising too
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 12:12 GMT (UK)
Does Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell mean her maiden name was Brown and her first husband Connor?

Edit: Meaning Ivy could have been Ivy Connor and then taken the Caldwell surname? 

New search coming on for parent's marriage, passenger records etc.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 12:23 GMT (UK)
Brown and Connor would normally mean a business
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 12:37 GMT (UK)
Pity!  I'll look for the business.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 12:44 GMT (UK)
Got it.  Brown and Connor (Mrs Janet J Caldwell) milliners  13 E Washington.

Perhaps the milliner connection will find her on a census.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 13:10 GMT (UK)
Directories before 1913 just listed Brown and Connor(s) milliners, and had missing pages so I couldn't look for her private address. 

In the 1914 Chicago City Directory, it is listed as Brown and Conner (Jane Caldwell) same business address.  And under her own name, as Janet I (Brown and Connor) 15 E Washington and h 413 Wrightwood Ave. (h means house or board).
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 14:57 GMT (UK)

Believe Jane Caldwell remarried -

James Edward Weirick maried Jane I Caldwell  Cook Illinois.  1 st April 1916

Jane born 1872 England.  Aged 44 years.

 https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:N7D1-VJH

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:00 GMT (UK)


1920 census Virginia Avenue St Paul Ward 7, Ramsey, Minnesota.

James E Weirich   57  born Pennsylvania.  Dentist.
Janet I Weirich   50  born England. Imm 1895 ??

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MW1S-HL3

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:00 GMT (UK)


Marriage -

The Minneapolis Journal
Minneapolis, Minnesota •
Sun, 2 Apr 1916
Page 38

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-minneapolis-journal/141765605/

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:04 GMT (UK)

City Directory - 1930

Jane I Weirick
Residence Year   1930
Street Address   299 W 6th apt 1 Residence Place   St Paul, Minnesota
Spouse   James E Weirick
Publication Title   St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1930

City Directory 1927

Mrs Janet I Weirick

Residence Year   1927
Street Address   Do Residence Place   St Paul, Minnesota
Occupation   Cafe 1336 Miss Roiver Blvd.
Publication Title   St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1927

James also listed 222 Hamm Bldg.

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:09 GMT (UK)


1950 census St Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota.

Janet Weirick   77   Head. Widowed.

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:16 GMT (UK)
numerous passenger lists - will take time to go thru them to see if she visits a relative.

New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957

Janet Isabell Weirick - 1876 - (aged 60 years) Travelling 25 May 1936
Liverpool to New York.
Ship Name   Carinthia - going o 205 Franklin Street. Wauban.  Wisconsin.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:16 GMT (UK)
Oh you're on fire again today!  Shame the marriage announcement was pretty vague about moving from England to the USA.

I can see a newspaper article dated 1930 about a humane soc. benefit party, connected to James Weirick but can't see the actual article.

I've found them in the 1930 census but not later. There's also the transcript entry for an obit for Janet dated 24 Mar 1960 in the Wausau Daily Herald saying she was 91. I bet that doesn't say where she came from in England either, or when!

While writing this you posted the info about James W being a widow, which doesn't tie in with the obit for Janet unless the obit was very delayed after her death.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:24 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD has Janet Isabella Brown birth regd 1870 Marylebone and 1864 Morpeth.

A Jane Brown and a William Caldwell married 1891 in Wakefield.  As mentioned in my first post. So going round in circles now.

Also Jane Isabella Brown births in Tynemouth (1872, 1878, 1879), Castle Ward (1873) and Hull (1876), Lambeth (1873). Jane Isabel in Berwick (1873), Hexam (1874), S Shields (1880). 

William Caldwell could have been her second husband?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:25 GMT (UK)
Born in Liverpool 10 June 1869

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Fri, 25 Mar 1960
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141766899/

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Thu, 24 Mar 1960
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141766988/

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:25 GMT (UK)


Star Tribune
Minneapolis, Minnesota •
Sun, 16 Feb 1930
Page 40

https://www.newspapers.com/article/star-tribune/141767084/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:36 GMT (UK)
Woohoo, well done. Persistence pays!

Now to find Ivy's birth... ???
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:41 GMT (UK)

Checked most of the passenger lists looking for a relative or clue -  check the 1947 one. Transcription jumbled.

cousin Sir W A Hayward/Wayward ?? Monkhorton. (Monks Horton) Kent.

Janet I Weirick - Marital Status   Widowed
Age   77
Birth Date   abt 1870 Birth Place   England Other Birth Place   Liverpool, England
Last Known Residence   London, England
Departure Port   Southampton, England
Arrival Date   16 Jun 1947 Arrival Port   New York, New York, USA
Residence Place   England
Final Destination   Darsan, Wne
Years in US   Permanently
Citizenship Intention   Yes
Height   5feet, 3inches - Hair Color   Gray - Eye Color   Blue
Complexion   Frh
Person in Old Country   S.r.w. Ahayam
Person in Old Country Relationship   Cousin
Person in Old Country Residence   England
Ship Name   Mauretania

Sandra




Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:43 GMT (UK)
FreeBMD Janet Isabel Brown regd Q4 1867 Liverpool.

GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 195  MMN Woods

Still have to find her marriage.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:45 GMT (UK)

wrong date / wrong year but a Liverpool birth :-\ :-\

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J3MD-YTY

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:46 GMT (UK)
UK and Ireland, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960 for Janet I Weirick - crossed thru so did'nt travel but it gives a UK address. (7 th December 1946)

Woodland Cottage. Farthing Common. Folkestone. Kent.

Sandra



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 15:56 GMT (UK)


Checked most of the passenger lists looking for a relative or clue -  check the 1947 one. Transcription jumbled.

cousin Sir W A Hayward/Wayward ?? Monkhorton. Kent.

Janet I Weirick - Marital Status   Widowed
Age   77
Birth Date   abt 1870 Birth Place   England Other Birth Place   Liverpool, England
Last Known Residence   London, England
Departure Port   Southampton, England
Arrival Date   16 Jun 1947 Arrival Port   New York, New York, USA
Residence Place   England
Final Destination   Darsan, Wne
Years in US   Permanently
Citizenship Intention   Yes
Height   5feet, 3inches - Hair Color   Gray - Eye Color   Blue
Complexion   Frh
Person in Old Country   S.r.w. Ahayam
Person in Old Country Relationship   Cousin
Person in Old Country Residence   England
Ship Name   Mauretania

Sandra

Oh that is interesting - the cousin is Sir W A Wayland - who is a mystery connection with another part of the family.  Could be the DNA link!

The other passenger record is her re-entering the USA where her line is handwritten and says British, with (Stateless) above, which might apply to the typed entry above or hers. More likely to be her as handwritten?  This despite her being a naturalised citizen via her marriage to Goodman.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 21 February 24 16:03 GMT (UK)
William A Wayland
Registration Date   Jul 1944Aug 1944 Sep 1944 - Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district   Folkestone    Kent
Spouse    Kathleen Browne
Volume Number   2a Page number   3054

Dover Express
Dover, Kent, England •
Fri, 18 Aug 1944
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/dover-express/141769699/

Hull Daily Mail
Hull, Humberside, England •
Fri, 11 Aug 1944
Page 4

https://www.newspapers.com/article/hull-daily-mail/141769783/

The East Kent Gazette, etc.
Sittingbourne, Kent, England •
Fri, 22 Sept 1950
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-east-kent-gazette-etc/141770106/


https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=833395.msg6981265

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 21 February 24 16:52 GMT (UK)
I've already collected quite a lot of info on Sir Wayland and built his tree to try to work out a connection.

His mother was Ada Matilda Woods, born 1839ish in Liverpool, so guessing Ada was a sibling of Janet's mother.  Making them cousins. FreeBMD has Ada born 1840 regd West Derby.

Wayland was married but later lived with Kathleen Browne until his first wife died. Hence the late marriage.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 22 February 24 12:54 GMT (UK)
We’ve veered quite a way from Ivy Caldwell born Settle haven’t we? I think I need to investigate that again.

Another -remote? - possibility is that she was born at sea? En route to North America. What nationality would she be and would the record be with the GRO? I can’t see anywhere obvious in their online index.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 22 February 24 16:51 GMT (UK)
From nothing, there has been a vast amount of progress on the thread as a whole.

Still lots of questions to be answered.

US State Department guidance instructs that a child born in international waters should have their place of birth listed as "AT SEA"

The marriage certificate for William Caldwell and Jane Brown (Wakefield) would hopefully specify parents, which might help take this further ?

The birth certificate of Ivy Isabel Caldwell registered September 1892 Settle would help clarify parents ?

The newspaper article indicated Jane had been in the USA a few years by the time of her marriage in 1916 to James Weirick.  No UK Census record for 1901 !!  Did Jane/Janet Brown/Caldwell have siblings ?

The 1920 census indicated she may have immigrated in 1893. (note : census can be wrong with birth and immigration dates)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXG-QQ7?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMW1S-HLQ&action=view

The earliest articles referring to Ivy Isabel Caldwell appear in 1911 - the date of the US 1910 census was 5 April 1910 - so perhaps the family were not in the USA in 1910. 

Try the nearest local library to where she passed to see if you can locate an obituary for Ivy.

Could Jane/Janet have left Ivy in the UK until she become established in the USA ? If she did who did she leave Ivy with ?  No sign on 1901  UK census !!  No sign on the US 1900 census. !!

If you think that Jane/Janet's mother was a sibling of Ada Matilda Woods, then you would need a Woods/Brown marriage.  Seems sense to investigate all her siblings and that angle if your saying there was a link to Sir William Wayland.

What is the Brown - Connor link ?  Did Jane have a sibling who married a Connor who also immigrated  ?

Is there a "Connor" link in the Wayland line ?

Kathleen Browne (with an "E" who married William Wayland, have you followed Kathleen backwards
 (or is it just co-incidence that the surname is the same.) ??

It appears Jane/Janet E Weirick (Kent England)  spent the winter with Ivy in 1938

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Thu, 1 Dec 1938
Page 9

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141843605/

Out of interest - had been in hospital 2 years prior to passing

Wausau Daily Herald
Wausau, Wisconsin •
Wed, 23 Mar 1960
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/wausau-daily-herald/141844908/

Sandra



 
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 22 February 24 20:41 GMT (UK)
On the marriage record for William Caldwell (bachelor, railway guard, aged 26 years) when he married Emily Kelly in the Parish Church, Smallbridge. Lancashire on the 11 th July 1889.  Ellen Caldwell his sister was a witness. Father was James Caldwell -
Emily Kelly was a spinster - aged 25 years, spinster, domestic servant.  Father William Kelly a farmer.

1891 census Hellifield, Yorkshire (Registration District Settle)

William Caldwell   27   Head
Emily Caldwell 27   Wife
Richard E Caldwell 5/12   Son.  MMN Kelly.

A birth of Ivy Caldwell in Settle (same redg dist) Sept 1892  (9a17) MMN Kelly

BUT no ivy on the 1901 census .........  :-\
No death for Emily Caldwell shortly after the marriage.   :-\

1901 census Blackburn Lancashire

William Caldwell   39   Head
Emily Caldwell 39 Wife
Richard E Caldwell 10 Son
Hilda Caldwell 1 Daughter

Death Blackburn - 1908

William Caldwell 1861 - September 1908  (aged 47 years)
Registration Quarter   Jul-Aug-Sep
Death Registration Place   Blackburn, Lancashire.
Volume   8e Page   209

1891 UK Census Harwood, Lancashire.

James Caldwell 67   Head. Widowed.
Ellen Caldwell 23   Daughter. Calico Worker.
Sarah Caldwell   19   Daughter. Machinist.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:745G-R6Z

1881 census Church Street, Harwood. Lancashire.

James Caldwell 54 Head (deceased 1898)
Emma Caldwell 21 Daughter (married Nathan Brindle 1886)
William Caldwell   18   Son  (deceased 1908)
Clara Caldwell 16 Daughter  (deceased Dec1881)
Ellen Caldwell 14 Daughter  (married Thomas Crowther 1892)
Sarah Caldwell 8 Daughter  (married Thomas Davis 1897)
Mary Caldwell 52 Wife (deceased 1890)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27G-6Q9L

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 22 February 24 20:56 GMT (UK)
Been offline today and see you've been busy!

You're certainly right about having unearthed a ton of info, mostly by you, so thanks as it's much appreciated.  I have sent the link to this thread to my DNA connection in the USA hoping he'll talk to his family and it might trigger some recollections/family anecdotes.

Also a good point about pursuing the various Brown connections - milliners and Kathleen Browne.

Yep, still a lot of stones to turn over.  Need another wet day!

I've just put together a timeline that I think has most points - might be some errors as I copied info though:
Ivy Isabel Caldwell
1909 Oct - earliest sighting - in the school records as acting in a play.
1910 Aug newspaper reports her 'indefinite stay at the home of Miss Florence McDowell'
1911 finished school with a scholarship honours - it was a 2-year course in prep for uni, but she didn't appear to go to uni.
1911-13 various mentions in social columns - visiting Miss Ruth Earhart in Chrisham and Miss Ann Grimes of Crawfordsville
1913 Chicago city directory shows mother Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell  - 15 E Washington - they are listed as milliners
Street Address   h 413 Wrightwood av, Chicago, Illinois, USA
1914 Apr 25 Ivy married Robert Goodman (in Chicago, Cook, Illinois) so became naturalized on marriage to a US citizen.
1920 census claims born March 1891 and immigrated 1893 but we know dates aren't necessarily correct
1930 USA census shows Ivy C Goodman, 39, immigration 1893 re-stated, and Robert G, 58, born in USA, employer, lumber company, family living on a farm. States both their ages at first marriage 24. [married 1914 so born 1881]. [He had previously married Pernetta Schmid and had a daughter]. Also Owen F, 14 and Robert, 11.
1930 Oct 8 divorced. Robert jnr to live with mother. John (presumably Owen F) to live with father.

1933 Jun 23 married Raymond J Plunkett in Cook, Illinois.
1940 census with Raymond J Plunkett, and his stepsons Oliver [sic] and Robert B J Goodman
1964 Nov 17 Raymond Plunkett dies
1996 Dec 14 Ivy Caldwell Plunkett died in California.
___________
Jane Isabell Caldwell (nee Brown)
1913 Chicago city directory shows Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell  - 15 E Washington - they are listed as milliners. Street Address   h 413 Wrightwood av, Chicago, Illinois, USA
1916 Apr 1 marries dentist James Edward Weirick (Jane born 1872 England.  Aged 44 years.)
1930 Aug from Tilbury to USA last address in UK 199 Piccadilly, London. age 58. Line above shows Albert Stedman same last address, buyer, age 42 - is this millinery business? Or just coincidence as probably a common address for people about to embark?
1930 Aug arrival NY from London, USA naturalised by marriage 1916, US address St Paul, Minnesota. Age 58
1932 Aug arrival Soton of James Weirick 70 retired dentist not accompanied by wife, going to Hampton Longe [sic], Monkshorton, Ashford, Kent. This is W A Wayland's address. Further down the page there is Ganet, 61, accompanied by husband, going to London. Is this Janet?
1936 May Liverpool to USA  Last UK address was Woodlands Cottage, Farthing Common, Lyminge  age 60
1938 Oct arrival NY from England. US address Forect (sic) Park, Wausau, Wisconsin age 69
Newspaper report with Ivy Plunkett holding a tea at her home (Ivy's) as Janet spending winter there
[1944 June - Betsey Wayland (nee Wynn) died at Hempton Lodge, Monkhorton, buried in Lewisham]
[1944 Aug - W A Wayland widower married Kathleen Browne (In the 1932 electoral register for his London address, Kathleen was listed as Kathleen Wayland)]
1946 Dec (didn't actually embark) Spton to USA. widow Living at Woodland Cottage
1946 Dec (didn't travel though) NY from Spton widow address Tall Trees, Box 265, Wausau, Wisc age 76
1947 June arrival NY from Soton. widow. Born Liverpool. Visa issued May 5 1947. Country of residence England. Cousin Sir WA Wayland, Monkhorton, Kent. To stay with daughter Mrs Plunkett. age 77
[1950 W A Wayland died]
1960 Mar 23 died after 2 years in hospital

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 23 February 24 09:12 GMT (UK)

The marriage certificate for William Caldwell and Jane Brown would be most helpful to help unravelling conundrum.

Still checking out the Caldwell families - Ivy Isobel Caldwell who was a daughter of William Caldwell and Emily Kelly disappears before the 1901 census. 

Meanwhile......William Caldwell (above) had a sister Sarah but it turns out, wasn't this one although there were links to Chicago.  :-\

Discounted another Caldwell family living in Wigan.  Sarah Caldwell married Jesse Stockley in 1902.
There are various passenger lists for her going (and a daughter Amy)  to and fro to Chicago Illinois which looked interesting. Investigate all the USA census in case it showed up any family visitors or  links.

Parents UK address given as 50 Poolstock Lane Wigan is the one the family were listed at on the 1901 census

1910 census  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKCH-Y34

1920 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MKCH-Y34

1930 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSTX-PT9

1940 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KWYH-LPC

1950 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KWYH-LPC

Chicago Tribune
Chicago, Illinois •
Mon, 23 Oct 1967
Page 63

https://www.newspapers.com/article/chicago-tribune/141864328/

Death of Sarah -

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MX-PZCY

spouse Jesse

The Daily Calumet
Chicago, Illinois •
Mon, 26 Nov 1945
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-daily-calumet/141864538/

FIND A GRAVE

Oakridge-Glen Oak Cemetery Hillside, Cook County, Illinois.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/138313140/sarah-stockley

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 12:54 GMT (UK)
Thank you. You’ve been busier than me! But no rain to keep me indoors this morning.

I’m waiting for the American DNA link to get back to me before I start chasing certificates.

On a different tack I noticed the Wayland/Browne wedding announcement stated Kathleen (Kay) Browne OBE, and in Wayland’s probate notice she was Dame Kathleen Wayland MBE. Is she a Dame because Wayland was Sir? But I can’t find her listed in the London Gazette with either an OBE or MBE. I found a website purporting to have lists too but she didn’t pop up there either.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 23 February 24 13:52 GMT (UK)
Could this be the death of Settle Ivy?
June 1895 Blackburn 8e 274
Caldwell, Ivy
Age 2

Some fantastic research and finds on this thread!
Throw in some odds and ends, which you may or may not have already.
1910 Chicago directory has
Caldwell Jeanette S Mrs (Brown & Connor) 514, 34 Washington h Warner hotel
https://www.chicagoancestors.org/

Brown & Connor were listed at that address way back in 1900

1911 has
Caldwell Jeanette S Mrs (Brown & Connor) 514, 15 E Washington
(as per Milliners in business section)
https://archive.org/details/lakesideannualdi1911unse/page/256/mode/2up

Later
Folkestone Herald, 30 Dec 1933 has some telephone news
Lyminge 87150—Mrs. J. I. Weirick, Woodlands Cottage, Farthing Common, Lyminge.

Janet is in the UK phone books on ancestry

Shimer College Record, Summer 1968
Apology to Ivy Caldwell Plunkett for announcing her death in the Spring edition! (which doesn't appear to be online)
https://archive.org/details/ShimerCollegeRecordVol.60No.2/page/n11/mode/2up
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 14:18 GMT (UK)
Even more good finds! Tx so much. We’re certainly building a picture here. If only to eliminate some possibles.

Shame about Brown and Connor’s business name being such a common surname to find in the residential section - that is something to plough through on a very wet day.  But worth it as Mr/Ms Brown could be Janet’s father or other relation. Or not…

Hmm Jeanette/Janet - not been looking for Jeanettes.

Are there any newspaper reports of Kathleen (Kay) Browne getting an OBE (she was born 1902 and it was mentioned in the 1944 wedding announcement so I guess the earliest would be 1920s) or her getting an MBE (between 1944 and 1950 when mentioned in the probate notice).
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: arthurk on Friday 23 February 24 14:42 GMT (UK)
Are there any newspaper reports of Kathleen (Kay) Browne getting an OBE (she was born 1902 and it was mentioned in the 1944 wedding announcement so I guess the earliest would be 1920s) or her getting an MBE (between 1944 and 1950 when mentioned in the probate notice).

I've been skimming the posts on this thread because of the Yorkshire connection, but without having anything to contribute. Until now...

The Order of the British Empire has various levels of awards. In ascending order: Member (MBE), Officer (OBE), Commander (CBE), Knight/Dame (KBE/DBE). People are sometimes promoted from one level to another, but someone who is already an OBE wouldn't then be appointed MBE.

What I suspect may be the case here is that in the wedding announcement someone has used OBE to refer to the Order of the British Empire, rather than the rank of Officer. If so, there's most likely a single award of MBE, some time before 1944.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 23 February 24 14:59 GMT (UK)
There are quite a few references to Brown & Connor in the Millinery Trade Review, on google books. But all seem to be in bits in snippet view :(

However, I think this one can be put together!
Millinery Trade Review, Volume 30. Published in 1905

Page 112
Mrs. Janet Caldwell, of the millinery firm of Caldwell & Anderson, 203 North Main street, South Bend, Ind., has sold the interest in her business in that city and has removed to Chicago, where she has purchased an interest in the millinery firm of Brown & Connor, 514-16-18 Venetian building, opposite Marshall Field's. Mrs. Caldwell, whose maiden name was Miss Janet Brown, formerly owned an interest in the Brown & Connor establishment of South Bend.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 23 February 24 15:10 GMT (UK)
Possibly unconnected, but that snippet reminds me that a Janet Brown, aged 25, Spinster, arrived in New York in March 1893. Travelled on the Gallia from Liverpool.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:J6BK-16G

My impression from the image was that she was headed for Indiana :-\
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Friday 23 February 24 15:14 GMT (UK)
That's a good find. Nice to see she was there earlier than 1909.

City Directory -  shows :- (same info)

Janette Caldwell (Caldwell and Anderson) res 203 N Main
Residence Year   1904
Residence Place   South Bend; Mishawaka, St Joseph County, Indiana, USA
Publication Title   South Bend, Indiana, City Directory, 1904
Caldwell and Anderson (Janette Caldwell and Bede Anderson) millinery 203 N Main.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 19:57 GMT (UK)
You are all making some fantastic finds.  Well done all.

Also now I know thanks to Arthuk all about Office and Order of the Br Empire.  I always thought an OBE was the Order of, not realising Officer existed.  So I'll see if I can find her being awarded an MBE but not sure if all of these are Gazetted.

A great find about Caldwell and Anderson, then Brown and Connor.  Also the single Janet Brown, 25, on the Gallia on route to Indiana for a projected sojourn, arriving March 1893.  Could be her. I am beginning to wonder if Mr William Caldwell was fictitious - I've looked for a marriage in Indiana but not found one. Or he did exist and was/wasn't Ivy's father but Mrs Caldwell was a convenient label, if Janet had a child.

For Caldwell and Anderson, do we assume Mrs Caldwell went into business with an Anderson? or was it William Caldwell first and Anderson. Hence Brown and Connor earlier.  Hopefully there is a city directory of Bend, Indiana that shows residential details in addition to businesses.

There's a William Caldwell arriving on the Sardinia on 19 Mar 1893 into Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada and Portland, Maine, USA. English, single, 26, farmer.  There is some writing in a column to the right that might be destination as Chicago is written against other names, and Brandon. It's faint and looks like it says que or gen capelle? I can't attach a snippet though.





Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 20:24 GMT (UK)
1904 city directory for South Bend:
Anderson, Bede (Caldwell & Anderson) res. 203 N Main

There's a Bede Anderson in the 1900 federal census, female, born abt 1883 in Sweden, immigrated when 0, working as a servant in the Whitcomb family in Chicago.  And various Bede Andersons marrying later.

A Beda Anderson arrived from Liverpool 11 months old on the 1 Sep 1884 on Cephalonia, arriving Boston, Massachusetts and Charlestown, South Carolina, Massachusetts, USA. The lines above state Anes Anderson, 10, female, Augusta Anderson, 25, matron. Then Bida. Then Loresa (?) Anderson, 15, spinster - all Swedish.  There are a lot of women listed as 'matron' for occupation on this passenger list. Perhaps it mean mother?

The women are listed separately to the men, and there are a lot of Andersons (is it the Swedish equivalent of Smith?) but hard to know which were families.


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 20:54 GMT (UK)
No J Caldwell or J Brown or Bede Anderson or milliner Connors/Conners in 1901 South Bend city directory. Nothing relevant at North Main St either.

No millinery business at 203 North Main St in the 1903 directory.  No J Caldwell or Brown either.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 23 February 24 20:57 GMT (UK)
Hi
I was having the same thoughts as you about William Caldwell and his relationship with Janet and Ivy!

As to the Janet Brown on the Gallia passenger list, I think she may be indexed on the outward one from UK as Janet J Brown (Janer J on ancestry). I haven't seen the image though, usually there is not much info on them back then.

The London Gazette, 6 June 1939, has a KB being made a Member of the Civil Division of the said Most Excellent Order
Miss Kathleen Browne, Honorary Secretary,
Empire Day Movement.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34633/supplement/3867

I guess that's an MBE. Could that be her?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 21:13 GMT (UK)
I've looked at the image for the Janet Brown passenger and the whole document is in a bit of a state. There is no more info than that I posted earlier.

Re the MBE, yes that's her.  Wayland, her future husband, was involved with the Empire Day Movement.  He probably nominated her.  A case of who you know!  Also might be how she met Wayland in the first place.

Are you old enough to remember Empire Day? I remember we paraded around the playground at infant school waving flags.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Friday 23 February 24 21:21 GMT (UK)
Hi
I'm afraid I can't remember Empire Day. Or even when we had an empire! I can remember the old money, that's about it.
Jon
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 23 February 24 22:58 GMT (UK)
You really haven't missed anything at all!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Saturday 24 February 24 02:22 GMT (UK)
Amazing information found on this thread, well done to all. I must agree, my thoughts from the first were that there was a high chance the father "William CALDWELL" was an invention. Though I do find the line in the article jon found: "Mrs. Caldwell, whose maiden name was Miss Janet Brown" interesting. Does this imply some people knew her as Janet BROWN, implying a marriage in the US, or is it simply trying to make a connection with the "Brown and Connor" name.  :-\
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 06:05 GMT (UK)
Going down the Brown avenue............... :-\ :-\

Matilda Ada Woods married William Wayland.

1841 census Dale Street, Liverpool. Lancashire

Edwd Woods 30 Puiblican.
Isabella Woods 40 born Scotland.
Emma Woods 5 born Liverpool.
Isaabel Woods 8 born Liverpool.
Matilda Woods   4 born Liverpool.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ21-L8L

1861 census Bootle Lancashire

Isabella Woods   60   Head.
Emma Woods 26 Daughter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ21-L8L

Marriage of Emma Woods - (not everything is perfect  :-\ father Edward was a solicitor !!)

Emma Woods - 20 March 1866 Bootle St Mary Lancashire. Spinster. - Full Age
Father   Edward Woods - Spouse David Miller Brown. Widower. Father John Brown. Merchant.
Clerk in the Masonic Office. Town Hall. Liverpool.

Liverpool Mercury, etc.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England •
Thu, 21 Jun 1866
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-mercury-etc/141972424/

1871 census 195 Beacon Lane. Liverpool.

David M Brown 47 Head. Accountant.
Emma Brown   37   Wife
Henry G Brown 7 Son  (probably from first marriage of David)
Janet J Brown 3 Daughter (age slightly out  :-\)
David E Brown 2 Son
Sarah Jones 20

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6M-M5S

BROWN, JANET  ISABEL     WOODS 
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 195

BROWN, DAVID  EDWARD     WOODS 
GRO Reference: 1868  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 433

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 06:15 GMT (UK)
Liverpool Daily Post
Liverpool, Merseyside, England •
Wed, 6 Oct 1875
Page 6

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-daily-post/141972106/
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLSQ-66Z8

4 th November 1875 - probate - died 25 September 1875 Sandyford Avenue Dublin. Probate to Emma Woods (relict) 9 Lomond Road.  (effects under a £1,000)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPJM-RN5L

1881 census 67 Needham Road. West Derby. Lancashire.

Emma Brown 47 Head Annuitant
Henry G. Brown 17 Son. Municipal Clerk.
Janet E. Brown 13 Daughter
David E. Brown   12   Son

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-LPHG

12 November 1881 -  Emma, widow of the late David Miller Brown.
Liverpool Weekly Courier.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JDV-YFM

Sandra



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 06:23 GMT (UK)

Liverpool, England, Crew Lists 1861-1919

Janet Brown - 1867 - Liverpool - 149 Stanley Ro. Bootle.
Age   30
Event Date 26/3/1897 transferred.
Port of Registry   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name   Lucania.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 06:41 GMT (UK)
Interesting - this is brother Henry G Brown on the 1901 census Harland Road. Birkenhead Cheshire.
But is the age for Janet Caldwell wrong.  Or it this the mother of the husband of Janet Brown/Caldwell- another Janet !!   :) :)  Doesn't say sister so is it leading back to that Salford Family in the earlier part of the thread - (reply 17) !! ?? Strange.

Henry G Brown   37   Head. Local. Collector. Born Bootle.  Single.
Janet Caldwell 50 Visitor. Born Liverpool.
Friedrick Kardel 25 Boarder

1911 census 23 Mellor Road Prenton Cheshire.

Henry George Brown - Collector of water shipping taxes.
Assie Louida (Annie Louisa) Borth 61 Boarder

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW3L-6MD

Sandra



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 08:51 GMT (UK)
That's good thinking looking for Brown and Caldwell in the same census and if it is her, could explain why nowhere on the 1900 Federal census. She's the wrong age though as pretty consistently recorded as born abt 1868.  So she should be in her 30s on the 1901 census.  I've checked the image and it's been transcribed correctly with her born Liverpool and Henry G Brown rate collector born Bootle.  The boarder a commercial book-keeper, born Germany.

Meanwhile I've just ordered the birth cert pdf from GRO for Janet Isabel Brown and expect to see that on Monday.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 09:24 GMT (UK)
I've searched without success for an Ivy Isabel/Isobel Brown or an Isabel/Isobel Ivy Brown on freeBMD born 1889-1898 but perhaps her middle name wasn't registered.  I have found an Isabella Brown 1893 reg'd West Derby (now subsumed into Liverpool). But GRO shows MMN as McGovern. 

I'm now thinking that Ivy was told she was born in 1891 in England, of English parents, and arrived in the USA in 1893, so that's what she gave for the censuses.  Or told that she arrived in the USA as a two-year old and that it was in 1893.  She wouldn't remember any details later if she did arrive that young, so 1893 could be out by a few years, and also her birth year which varies so much in the records.  Guessing her age?

Yes she had an English mother, Janet, and possibly an English father back home but was she born in the USA a few months after Janet arrived?

Why would Janet Brown head for Indiana - she must have had a relative or a connection/job there or high hopes.  Who is Connor/Conner of Brown and Connor?

It sounds like she reinvented herself on arrival, as Maddys52 pointed out (sorry I've only just seen your post - so many appearing!) and using these company names to justify her story.

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 09:46 GMT (UK)
I've contacted the history museum for N. Indiana as they cover South Bend.  To see what they might have on Brown & Connor there.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 18:26 GMT (UK)

Here is another strange one - draws a blank.

Nearly got excited with the date   :-\  Wrong mother, wrong Christian names for Ivy Isabel  :-\ Brown not Caldwell as well.  :-\
England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

Ethel May Brown

Baptism Date   29 Mar 1891
Baptism Place   Parish of St. Clement, Ordsall-in-Salford, Lancashire, England
Father   William Brown - Mother    Mary Jane  :-\

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 18:52 GMT (UK)
 ;D

I've just found a Janet Brown in a crew list going to NY
Age   30
Birth Year   abt 1867
Birth Place   Liverpool
Event Date   1897
Port of Registry   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name   Lucania

Looking at the image, the whole line is crossed out with an entry about being transferred. Possible March 1897. It doesn't say where transferred to, but there is no signature unlike those who sailed. But there is an address 149 Stanley Rd, plus an illegible (to me) town or area, could be Bootle, and the job of Stewardess.  There are hundreds of pages of images and I have yet to find exactly when the ship sailed but as she wasn't on it, no matter.

I've started looking at passenger records for Janet Brown or Caldwell to/from the USA over a range of years because she could have left Ivy in England with grandmother and then returned to collect her later, as suggested by a Rootschatter earlier (think it was you Sandra).  So if Janet Caldwell is with her brother in 1901 (when she wasn't visible in US censuses) that could have been the reason for the trip. Although there were only a few years between her brother and her so can't see why her age would be so wrong.  I need to pursue a mother in law Janet Caldwell as you suggested.

There might well be a William Caldwell who stayed in England, but he was cited as Ivy's father on the birth cert, if we could ever find her birth!

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 18:57 GMT (UK)
;D

I've just found a Janet Brown in a crew list going to NY
Age   30
Birth Year   abt 1867
Birth Place   Liverpool
Event Date   1897
Port of Registry   Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Ship Name   Lucania

Looking at the image, the whole line is crossed out with an entry about being transferred. Possible March 1897. It doesn't say where transferred to, but there is no signature unlike those who sailed. But there is an address 149 Stanley Rd, plus an illegible (to me) town or area, could be Bootle, and the job of Stewardess.  There are hundreds of pages of images and I have yet to find exactly when the ship sailed but as she wasn't on it, no matter.


  :) :) Snap - reply 98 - was 26/3/1897

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 19:53 GMT (UK)
Oh sorry, so many posts on this thread that I missed that!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Saturday 24 February 24 20:07 GMT (UK)


Don't apologise, think I'm going round in circles  :) :)  Keep needing a lie down and tablets for headaches  :) :)

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 20:33 GMT (UK)
I know what you mean.

I thought I'd look for an I Brown or I Caldwell travelling from England to the US 1890-1900 but not getting anywhere with that either.

Back to looking for Connor of Brown and Connor....
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 24 February 24 21:01 GMT (UK)
Is a milliner more likely to be a woman?  In the millinery section of trade directories, quite a few are.

Looking for any Connor:
South Bend and Mishawaka directories in the Millinery section and alphabetical names:
1903 nothing under Mishawaka, but South Bend city directory has Conner, Nathan (Eva) wks S W Woollen Co, res 435 N Lafayette
1905 has Conner, Eva wid (Nathan)

1903 has Connor, George G (Delia M) draying, res 508 E La Salle Ave   
would expect a milliner to be female but she's not listed in the milliners section

1901 no Connor or Conner.  No Connor or Caldwell or Brown listed under Milliners.

Hmm, was Connor an invention too?

Sandra have you come across any newspaper entries for Brown & Connor, or Caldwell & Anderson at all?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 08:55 GMT (UK)
1906 Mrs Caldwell was in Illinoios.

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Wed, 16 May 1906
Page 2

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142051796/

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Tue, 14 Feb 1905
Page 9

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142052119/

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Wed, 18 Jan 1905
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142052157/

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Sat, 4 Feb 1905
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142052184/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 10:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks for these Sandra. I don’t think there was a Connor or an Anderson. It just made it sound a bigger firm?

I’m wondering where there’s an archive of all the Millinery Trade Review journals to see when Brown & Connor first appeared in South Bend.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 12:29 GMT (UK)


There was a Beda Anderson  (aged 34 in 1920 - so I discounted her from being in business with Janet Caldwell back in 1905 Indiana )
Bede Anderson in Chicago in 1920 described as a milliner - line 91 - a border with the Madden family.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R66-6LY?view=index&action=view

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 25 February 24 12:31 GMT (UK)
1898 Lakeside Directory of the City of Chicago (on ancestry)

Brown Jeanette Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 191 Schiller

Connor Helen Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 10 Burton pl
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 25 February 24 12:34 GMT (UK)
1899

Brown Jeanette Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 38 Stanley terrace
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Sunday 25 February 24 12:37 GMT (UK)
1899

Connor Helen Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 40 Stanley terrace
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 12:43 GMT (UK)

Fantastic jonw65. Absolutely brilliant that the names have popped up at last.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 13:04 GMT (UK)
Aha! Well done Sandra and Jonw65. I have an Ancestry sub at the mo but find searching hit and miss.

So now the first sighting of Janet Brown is 1898 and in Chicago not South Bend.

So did Janet train as a milliner in England or learn in the US? Or perhaps she wasn’t a hands-on one but a business owner. Money?

Millinery was big business and also one of the few respectable occupations for women then, I’ve read.

Wonder if Miss Helen Connor is in any census and is English?

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 13:26 GMT (UK)
Amazing information found on this thread, well done to all. I must agree, my thoughts from the first were that there was a high chance the father "William CALDWELL" was an invention. Though I do find the line in the article jon found: "Mrs. Caldwell, whose maiden name was Miss Janet Brown" interesting. Does this imply some people knew her as Janet BROWN, implying a marriage in the US, or is it simply trying to make a connection with the "Brown and Connor" name.  :-\

Now looking like Janet/Jeanette Brown married William Caldwell in the USA after 1899?  She might not have changed the company name immediately after marriage though.  Perhaps not until her new Caldwell & Anderson venture?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 13:29 GMT (UK)


There was a Beda Anderson  (aged 34 in 1920 - so I discounted her from being in business with Janet Caldwell back in 1905 Indiana )
Bede Anderson in Chicago in 1920 described as a milliner - line 91 - a border with the Madden family.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9R66-6LY?view=index&action=view

Sandra

I can't view that link for some reason - it doesn't show the original image.  But I can see the image via Ancestry. 
34 years old in 1920, arrived in the US in 1900. Milliner in a store (as opposed to a factory I suppose). Wage or salary (does that mean she's an employee rather than an employer?).
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 13:56 GMT (UK)


Were you logged into family search ?

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 15:32 GMT (UK)
Yes.

Another site where I have hit and miss success. Do you go to a specific rather than the general search?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 17:13 GMT (UK)


Probably a variety of searches if I'm not getting the expected results  :)
Running out of ideas on this conundrum  :-\

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 17:44 GMT (UK)
It would be useful to see the earliest reference to Mrs J Caldwell bracketed with Brown and Connor, which might pinpoint when she married or started calling herself Mrs Caldwell.

If Janet did marry, was Ivy her birth daughter (born before or after marriage) or her stepdaughter? Ivy may have arrived in the USA with her birth mother,  possibly the first Mrs Caldwell? Assuming Ivy was born in England. Presumably Ivy had papers showing she was born in England, or were people’s info just taken on their word?  She probably didn’t need a birth cert when marrying Robert Goodman. She could pretty much say what she wanted for a census as long as it matched what she’d told her husbands. The husbands might have given all the family info to the enumerator anyway. And with the US censuses being sealed for 70 odd years, no-one would know or care (except us!) about inaccuracies.

With another family I was tracing in England, they’d gone to extraordinary effort to disguise themselves. Why as no-one would see it for 100 years? Did they think the enumerator would know and tell the neighbours or the newspapers? The man had a wife elsewhere and the marriage must have broken down between two censuses. He and his new partner were listed with amended names, ages, places of birth and occupation. The clue was the children including a son of his and his wife. If the man hadn’t died soon after, the link between his real name, the census address, and his partner wouldn’t have been on record. I posted it all on Wikipaedia as he was a famous-ish artist John Cheltenham Wake with the original entry limited and erroneous. It was luck really as their youngest child’s school admission showed an address plus mother’s name that confirmed it.

Perhaps a bit of lucky recording of info will lead us to Ivy’s origins. :)
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 19:53 GMT (UK)
1898 Lakeside Directory of the City of Chicago (on ancestry)

Brown Jeanette Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 191 Schiller

Connor Helen Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 10 Burton pl

Also 1897 directory
Conner Helen (Brown & Conner) 518, 34 Washington h 638 W Munroe
Brown Jeanette (Brown & Conner)  ditto h 666 Park Ave

1896
no Helen Conner/or/ors listed.
but....
Brown Jeanette F wid John F h 6415 Stewart Ave   Was our Janet Brown actually Mrs Janet Brown?  So now need to find a marriage and perhaps a different passenger record?

no 1892-5 directories
1891
no Jeanette/Janet Brown


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 20:01 GMT (UK)
Not sure this the right connection.  :-\

Just out of interest I believe the City Directory entries are usually applicable to the previous year.

FIND A GRAVE

John F Brown 1865 - 1895

Mount Hope Cemetery
Chicago, Cook County, Illinois

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107144804/john-f-brown

Janet Montgomery Richardson Brown

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/107144805/janet_montgomery_brown

Birth Certificate Index for a "Brown" child

John F Brown
Birth Date   Abt 1855 - Birth Place   Scotland Age   34
Spouse    Jenett Richardson
Child    Brown

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 25 February 24 20:22 GMT (UK)

Not sure this will help but the mention  of Kent was interesting maybe. ??
Probably a red-herring.  :-\

U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960
(Bit scratchy to try and read  :-\)

Jane F Brown. Born 1870 Kent. England. (aged 40 years) Wid.
Last permanent address Brighton. No relations in country from whence came.
In transit - Arrival April 1910 
Port of Arrival   Portal, North Dakota.
Landed 27/09 Empress of Britain.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 20:48 GMT (UK)
Cooking on gas again!  Need to check these further, but look at this.

I was looking for John F Brown in older directories but nothing, then started looking for Jeanette Caldwell in Lakeside, Chicago and one hint led to another, including William Caldwell, in Ancestry, Cook County Illinois marriage index:

William Caldwell
Age   32
Gender   Male
Birth Year   abt 1870
Marriage Type   Marriage
Marriage Date   19 Jun 1902
Marriage Place   Chicago, Cook, Illinois
Spouse Name   Jeannette Ray
Spouse Age   29
Spouse Gender   Female
FHL Film Number   1030338

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 25 February 24 21:04 GMT (UK)

Not sure this will help but the mention  of Kent was interesting maybe. ??
Probably a red-herring.  :-\

U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960
(Bit scratchy to try and read  :-\)

Jane F Brown. Born 1870 Kent. England. (aged 40 years) Wid.
Last permanent address Brighton. No relations in country from whence came.
In transit - Arrival April 1910 
Port of Arrival   Portal, North Dakota.
Landed 27/09 Empress of Britain.

Sandra

Hmm. Also says final destination England.  Does that fit with anything we know?  Need to read this thread from start to finish again!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 26 February 24 02:56 GMT (UK)
Trying to find the addresses mentioned for Janet BROWN/CALDWELL and Helen CONNOR on the 1901 census. So far:

10 Burton Place seems to be a boarding house, no person of interest there.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XC4Q-1PH?

191 Schiller St, no person of interest. (Coincidnetally, there is a William CALDWELL a few doors down at 205 Schiller, with a family)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HY-XC4Q-BJQ?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Monday 26 February 24 03:23 GMT (UK)
No one of interest at 38 or 40 Stanley Terrace either in 1901:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68NQ-DBM?
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-68NQ-JHV?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 11:38 GMT (UK)
Just found James E Weirick death in England.

Sept qtr 1935 Age   73
Elham RD  Volume 2a Page   1318
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 11:56 GMT (UK)
Time for a timeline!
On post 79 on p9 I put one together and now you've all discovered more facts, and so much more speculation. And I need a summary.

Chicago Tribune, South Bend Tribune, Milliner Trade Review, city directories of great use

Janet/Jeanette/Jane Isabell Weirick formerly Caldwell nee Brown
Daughter Ivy Isabel Caldwell – don’t know if she was daughter or stepdaughter? Says born in England.  Was she daughter of Janet and William Caldwell (possibly both English born) before they married, born Brown but taking the name Caldwell?  Or daughter of Janet and A N Other, taking the Caldwell surname on marriage?  Or William Caldwell’s daughter with A N Other in a previous marriage).

1909 Oct - earliest sighting of Ivy - in school records, acting in a play, in the USA.
1914 Aug – Chicago Tribune. Mrs Jane Caldwell of 413 Wrightwood Ave announces marriage of daughter Ivy to Goodman.  NB Not Mr & Mrs Caldwell. Is she separated/divorced/widowed?  
1916 Apr 1 marries dentist James Edward Weirick (Jane born 1872 England.  Aged 44 years.)
1920 census Virginia Avenue St Paul Ward 7, Ramsey, Minnesota. James E Weirich   57  born Pennsylvania.  Dentist.
Janet I Weirich  50  born England. Imm 1895 or 93 – hard to distinguish

plenty more info/years as per post 79 timeline, including the following that also makes a firm link between Ivy and Janet

1938 Oct arrival NY from England. US address Forect (sic) Park, Wausau, Wisconsin age 69
Newspaper report with Ivy Plunkett (daughter) holding a tea at her home (Ivy's) as Janet spending winter there.

cont'd in next post.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 11:56 GMT (UK)
Summarising backwards, newer to older for mentions of Jane(t) Isabel(la).
1960 Wasau Daily Herald 24 Mar. Death of Mrs Jane Weirick, 91, St Paul, Minn, Died Wed 23 March. Born in Liverpool 10 June 1869 and came to US about 60 years ago. Services by pastor of First Presbyterian Church on 25 Mar. Surviving are daughter Mrs Raymond J Plunkett, Wausau Route 5; two grandchildren (will be Owen and Robert Goodman jnr) and three great-grandchildren.

1950 census St Paul, Ramsey, Minnesota. Janet Weirick   77   Head. Widowed.

1941, 42, 46 Mrs J I Weirick listed in British phone books at Woodland Cottage, Farthing Common with a Lyminge number
1938 In Wausau for the winter with Ivy
1935 Q3 James E Weirick died in Kent, UK.
1930 Jane I Weirick 299 W 6th apt 1 St Paul, Minnesota. Spouse James E Weirick
From St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1930
1926 and 7 Mrs J I Weirick St Paul, Minnesota 1336 Miss River blvd. In Restaurants and Lunch Rooms section. James listed 222 Hamm Bldg in Dentist section
From St Paul, Minnesota, City Directory, 1926 and 7
1916 April 2 newspaper announcement Minneapolis Journal – after marriage of a St Paul man Dr J E Weirick and Mrs Jane Caldwell, they will make their home from July 1 at his suburban residence Somerset Farm on the Jefferson Highway, St Paul.
1916 April 1 married James Edward Weirick, 54 born abt 1862 (Jane 44 born abt 1872 England.
______________
1914 Chicago City Directory, Brown and Conner (Jane Caldwell) 15 E Washington. Under her own name, as Janet I (Brown and Connor) 15 E Washington and h 413 Wrightwood Ave. (h means house or board so residential address).
1913 Chicago city directory shows Janet J (Brown and Connor) Caldwell - 15 E Washington - they are listed as milliners
Street Address h 413 Wrightwood av, Chicago, Illinois, USA
1913 Chicago city directory also has Caldwell, Jane wid Wm h rear 2710 Fulton – same Jane? TO CHECK
Directories before 1913 just listed Brown and Connor(s) milliners, and had missing pages so I couldn't look for private addresses
1910 Caldwell Jeanette S Mrs (Brown & Connor) 514, 15 E Washington (as per Milliners in business section)
1906 May Mrs Caldwell of the Chicago firm of Brown & Connor will display hats at the Oliver Hotel on May 17. South Bend Tribune.
1905 via Google books. Millinery Trade Review, Volume 30. Published in 1905 Page 112
Mrs. Janet Caldwell, of the millinery firm of Caldwell & Anderson, 203 North Main street, South Bend, Ind., has sold the interest in her business in that city and has removed to Chicago, where she has purchased an interest in the millinery firm of Brown & Connor, 514-16-18 Venetian building, opposite Marshall Field's. Mrs. Caldwell, whose maiden name was Miss Janet Brown, formerly owned an interest in the Brown & Connor establishment of South Bend.
QUERY: An odd wording since it seems she was Brown & Connor in Chicago to start with! CHECK frequency of publication and likely date of entry.
1905 Feb 14. For rent – first floor in the Oliver row. Suitable for business apartments. Apply Caldwell & Anderson, 2 Oliver row. In South Bend Tribune
1905 Feb 4 The firm of Caldwell&Anderson will be closed until Feb 20 due to Mrs Caldwell’s absence in New York and Chicago. South Bend Tribune  SO NO BEDE ANDERSON TO HOLD THE FORT?
1905 Jan 18. Wanted – makers and apprentices for millinery. Apply Caldwell & Anderson, no. 2, Oliver Row
1904 Janette Caldwell (Caldwell and Anderson) res 203 N Main South Bend; Mishawaka, St Joseph County, Indiana, USA  South Bend, Indiana, City Directory, 1904
Caldwell and Anderson (Janette Caldwell and Bede Anderson) millinery 203 N Main.
Anderson, Bede (Caldwell & Anderson) res. 203 N Main
Lived above the shop/workshop?
1903 South Bend city directory.No millinery business at 203 North Main St in the 1903 directory.  No J Caldwell or Brown either.
1901 census 10 Burton Place seems to be a boarding house, no person of interest there.
Also 191 Schiller St, no person of interest. (Coincidentally, there is a William CALDWELL a few doors down at 205 Schiller, with a family)
No one of interest at 38 or 40 Stanley Terrace either in 1901
______________________
1899
Brown Jeanette Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 38 Stanley terrace
Connor Helen Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 40 Stanley terrace
1898 Lakeside Directory of the City of Chicago (on ancestry)
Brown Jeanette Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 191 Schiller
Connor Helen Miss (Brown & Connor) 517, 34 Washington h 10 Burton pl
1897 directory Chicago
Conner Helen (Brown & Conner) 518, 34 Washington h 638 W Munroe
Brown Jeanette (Brown & Conner) ditto h 666 Park Ave
1896 chicago
no Helen Conner/or/ors listed.
however....
Brown Jeanette F wid John F h 6415 Stewart Ave. QUERY Was our Janet Brown actually Mrs Janet Brown?  But definitely listed as Miss Jeanette Brown in 1898 so probably not.
1892-5 directories not available on Ancestry
1891 no Jeanette/Janet Brown
1869 June 10 Liverpool birth according to her death/funeral notice in 1960.
_______________

Last sighting of Brown in 1899.
First sighting of Caldwell is 1904.

At least a narrow window to look for a marriage!

Where is she/they in 1900 census?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 12:17 GMT (UK)
Not a marriage but adult William Caldwell deaths from Illinois Sec of State website:
CALDWELL, WILLIAM J   1888-02-05   CHICAGO   20 YR   U         00001486   COOK
CALDWELL, WILLIAM   1896-02-17   CHICAGO   60 YR   U         00002538   COOK
CALDWELL, WILLIAM F   1903-06-01   CHICAGO   28 YR   U         00004108   COOK
CALDWELL, WILLIAM   1910-01-14   CHICAGO   38 YR   U         00002246   COOK
CALDWELL, WILLIAM W   1910-08-10   CHICAGO   95 YR   U         00002879   COOK
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 18:17 GMT (UK)

Not sure this will help but the mention  of Kent was interesting maybe. ??
Probably a red-herring.  :-\

U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960
(Bit scratchy to try and read  :-\)

Jane F Brown. Born 1870 Kent. England. (aged 40 years) Wid.
Last permanent address Brighton. No relations in country from whence came.
In transit - Arrival April 1910 
Port of Arrival   Portal, North Dakota.
Landed 27/09 Empress of Britain.

Sandra

Hmm. Also says final destination England.  Does that fit with anything we know?  Need to read this thread from start to finish again!

I have come across a Janet Frances Brown - somewhere.  Could be her, so not Janet Isabell.

Edit: I remember now, she was the widow of William F Brown and listed in a city directory - South Bend or Chicago.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 26 February 24 20:36 GMT (UK)
Mrs Jeanette Isabel  Caldwell - Divorce from William Caldwell

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Mon, 13 Jun 1904
Page 1

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142163112/

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Mon, 2 Mar 1903
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142163313/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: jonwarrn on Monday 26 February 24 21:35 GMT (UK)
Mrs Jeanette Isabel  Caldwell - Divorce from William Caldwell

The South Bend Tribune

Wow, Sandra!
The most stunning find of the many you have made in this thread.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 22:36 GMT (UK)
Wot Jonw65 said!  Brilliant.  Sherlock Sandra.

So there was a William Caldwell.  Wonder when they married?  Now I'm thinking that if Janet and William were both English, would their child be English or a US citizen at birth?  If the former then she wasn't necessarily born in England.  The year she states she immigrated (1893) might just be the year that Janet immigrated? And Ivy muddled up her info. 

Also re your other clipping, it would seem that the millinery company was not just about millinery.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 26 February 24 22:56 GMT (UK)
We just need a birth announcement in a local paper in Chicago or South Bend for Ivy Isabel(la) Caldwell now....
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 27 February 24 01:28 GMT (UK)
That's a great find Sandra! Wonder where they married and what William's occupation was. There was a William CALDWELL, policeman in Indiana in the early 1890s I remember looking at a few accounts of him in newspapers, but it is a reasonably common name - I think from memory there was also a William CALDWELL around this time arrived from Edinburgh to lecture at Chicago University. There are a few others as well, just to make it difficult!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 09:02 GMT (UK)
Well in the 1899 city directory (compiled 1898) we have the last listing of Brown&Connor in Chicago, then we have the March 1903 newspaper announcement of the new business Caldwell&Anderson opening at 2 Oliver Row, South Bend.

Which could mean they married between 1898 and 1903 but probably at the beginning of this period since they divorced in 1904.

Ivy stated her birth date as 1891 and arrival in the US as 1893.  Ivy was 27 in the 1920 census (birth 1893ish), 39 in the 1930 census (birth 1890ish and stated age at marriage of 24 - that was in 1914, making birth 1890ish). 1940 census she was 46 (so birth 1894ish).   

It's still looking like Ivy was born before they married, and she was likely to be Jeanette/Janet's daughter rather than stepdaughter as she had the same middle name of Isobel (or just a popular name and a coincidence?). So we're looking for an Ivy Isobel Brown birth 1890-95 and possibly in Lakeside, Chicago, where Brown&Connor were first listed in the 1897 city directory, compiled 1896?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 10:25 GMT (UK)
Can't put attachments on look up boards - please look on this link.

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=880729.new#new

The birth of William Caldwell.

The marriage of Jeanette Isabel Brown and William Caldwell (note her parents are David Brown and Emma Woods  I included earlier in this thread)

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 10:31 GMT (UK)
That’s fantastic Sandra so very well done!  It’s taken a lot of work so very grateful.

I think I need tuition in effective searching  :-\

Once I get Janet Brown’s birth cert I’ll post the info in here and then I can work on the Wayland in Kent connection.

One wall falls to reveal the next…but so delighted with this thread.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 11:16 GMT (UK)

The brother John Brown was the County Auditor.
The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Wed, 27 Jun 1900
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142206216/

Bear in mind that if William was a mariner on the SS Oceanic and Janet/Jeanette/Isabel/Isabella travelled with him, there would possibly be no passenger record.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 11:34 GMT (UK)
Even more valuable info!

Perhaps we should look for siblings John and Jeanette/Janet arriving in the USA with a toddler Ivy. They’d look like a couple on a passenger list wouldn’t they if the records weren’t very detailed. Wonder if others in the Brown family came across at the same time?

Returning to my DNA link via Ivy - this could be via her grandparents Woods or on her  unknown father’s side.  Or was Ivy actually William’s child, left with family in Scotland, with Mr &Mrs Caldwell sailing ‘home’ to collect her?

 Grounds for divorce - no support. I take that to mean financial and perhaps he continued to be at sea.


.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 13:03 GMT (UK)


John M Brown - Auditor Elect -

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Thu, 10 Nov 1898
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142208069/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 13:16 GMT (UK)
A political appointment?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 14:42 GMT (UK)

1900 census Portage, St Joseph, Indiana.

John Brown   40   Head. County Auditor.
Anna Brown 39   Wife
Mabel Brown 15   Daughter
John Brown 15   Son
Edgar Brown 11   Son
Viola Herring 19   Niece

1910 census Baynes Street. Buffalo Ward 20, Erie, New York.

John Brown   50   Head. Born England. Widowed. Book-Keeper.  NA
John A Brown 23 Son
Mabel Brown 25 Daughter
Edgar Brown 21 Son

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 14:43 GMT (UK)


FIND A GRAVE  Obituary attached.

Anna Barbara Herring Brown.

Elmlawn Cemetery Tonawanda, Erie County, New York
PLOT Grace Lawn Section, Lot 372

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/202382487/anna-barbara-brown

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 14:43 GMT (UK)
John Miller Brown - Registration Date   1859 Quarter of the Year   Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration Place   West Derby, Lancashire, England
Volume   8b Page   332

BROWN, JOHN  MILLER     MOULDS 
GRO Reference: 1859  S Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 332

marriage -

Anna B. Herring born 1855 - marriage 29 November 1883  (aged 28 years)
Marriage Place   Niles, Berrien, Michigan, USA
Spouse    John M. Brown

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Thu, 19 Sept 1918
Page 5

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune-obituary-for-john/142211309/

FIND A GRAVE

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/202381890/john_miller_brown

son - John Arthur Brown - 1887 - 1955


United German and French Cemetery
Cheektowaga, Erie County, New York
PLOT Section 5

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/101215242/john_arthur_brown

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 14:56 GMT (UK)

1861 census Toxteth Park West Derby Liverpool Lancs.

David M Brown 37 Head. Collector of rents. Born Scotland.
Martha A Brown 30 Wife. Born Woolwich. Kent.
John M Brown   1   Son. Born Liverpool Lancashire.
Alexr Reid 25 Boarder
Matthew Begbie 22 Visitor
Annie Odonnell 17 Servant

1871 census Tattenhall Cheshire.

John Brown aged 11 years - pupil - Tattenhall House Boarding School.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 15:01 GMT (UK)
The list for this audit is far to long to paste but you might get the jist -

Auditor is not political.

The South Bend Tribune
South Bend, Indiana •
Fri, 11 Dec 1903
Page 7

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/142214078/
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 15:17 GMT (UK)
More good finds - some confirm but others not so sure about. Would this person be a smith’s striker and then become an auditor? Perhaps the wrong John Brown. Such a common name. And Jeanette gives Emma WOODS not MOULD as MMN. Her father could have remarried though.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 15:19 GMT (UK)


No I deleted that census - remembering John arrived about 1877.  If you read his obit he started off working on a farm, then he went to singer and then back to a farm.  He then went to work as a clerk and a book - keeper before tendering for the position as auditor.

I have a vague recollection of reading of a John M Brown in a solicitors office which may or may not have been this John - who knows.  :)

Don't forget David Brown remarried ..........

Liverpool Mercury, etc.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England •
Thu, 7 Apr 1859
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-mercury-etc/142214273/


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 15:22 GMT (UK)
Perhaps this is the marriage............

Martha Amelia Moulds -
Marriage Date   20 Nov 1848   Saint Mary Magdalene, Woolwich: Church Street, Greenwich.
Father    John Sterling Moulds - Royal Artillery.
- Spouse    David Miller Brown
Both of full age. David - Bombadier  - Royal artillery.  Father John Brown - Merchant.

Martha Brown was also the mother of Henry George Brown.

BROWN, HENRY  GEORGE     MOULDS 
GRO Reference: 1864  M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 459

Death Record

BROWN, MARTHA  AMELIA     35 
GRO Reference: 1864  J Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 360


Liverpool Mercury, etc.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England •
Tue, 26 Apr 1864
Page 9

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-mercury-etc/142215364/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 15:24 GMT (UK)
I had forgotten/missed that. About 100 posts ago.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 27 February 24 16:15 GMT (UK)

A lot to digest.

This may be the most important certificate you need to access on Scotlands People.

Isabella Caldwell - mmn  Brown - 1891 - 572 / 1 / 64 Neilston

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neilston

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 27 February 24 18:10 GMT (UK)
Woohoo you’re on a roll today.

Thanks and I’ll pursue that birth once back home on my computer at the weekend.

After 18 pages it looks like you’ve nailed it. Fingers crossed!

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 28 February 24 15:07 GMT (UK)
Just received Janet Brown’s birth cert. Confirming the right person although I think Janet and Jeanette are pronounced differently. Perhaps Jeanette sounded French and suited the millinery/fashion trade?

Registered in Mount Pleasant, Liverpool
Date born 10 June 1867
Where 13 Mount St
Name Janet Isabel
Father David Miller Brown - occ. Collector under corporation
Mother Emma Brown formerly Woods
Birth reg’d 9 Dec 1867



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 04 March 24 17:44 GMT (UK)
Woohoo you’re on a roll today.

Thanks and I’ll pursue that birth once back home on my computer at the weekend.

After 18 pages it looks like you’ve nailed it. Fingers crossed!



A lot to digest.

This may be the most important certificate you need to access on Scotlands People.

Isabella Caldwell - mmn  Brown - 1891 - 572 / 1 / 64 Neilston

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neilston

Sandra

Any luck with this certificate ????
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 04 March 24 20:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Sandra

I'm just compiling a timeline with Janet Brown, her siblings, and Ivy, to spot the gaps in info, and guessing where people might be. 

And making a wishlist on Scotland People to be sure to only pay for the best search results. You found a possible Ivy as Isabella Caldwell MMN Brown for 1891 (but no clue to the quarter) in Nielston, and I've found on the 1891 census (held in April) an Isabella Caldwell 1 year old in Partick.  If the birth is Ivy then it would be March so she'd only be one month old. I need to check how babies' ages were entered. The transcript says 1, so that might be month or year.

Caldwell is a commonish name in the area, as is Brown, but I found a marvellous memorial headstone in Edinburgh that gives lots of family details. The vault or plot of John Brown and wife Janet Skinner, parents of David Miller Brown.  An Edinburgh family.

I'm just looking to see if any of Janet Brown's family were alive and in Scotland at about the right time for the 1891 birth and accommodation for them both.

I will update here once I've looked at all the possibilities.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Monday 04 March 24 20:57 GMT (UK)
William Caldwell obtained his second mate certification in 1885, first mate in 1887, and master in 1889.  He might have been master of the Oceanic in 1900, if I could find the dratted journey! 

Presumably he continued his seagoing career which would explain why Janet Caldwell was at her half brother's home in Birkinhead in the 1901 census with no Mr Caldwell listed.  Wonder where Ivy was?

Timeline is taking time.  More work on it tomorrow, and searches on Scotland's People site too.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Monday 04 March 24 21:05 GMT (UK)

Yes, I found the Browns when I discovered David Miller Brown way back.
Very old stone at Carlton.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 08:59 GMT (UK)
More on the newspaper report of Mr and Mrs Caldwell, after marrying, sailing for England in June 1900 on the Oceanic of the Dominion line.  I can't find that sailing, but as you say, if William Caldwell was crew, they wouldn't be on a passenger list.  They would be on a crew list though? Or one crew and one passenger.

According to the Ships List website, there were two different Oceanic ships.  One built 1870 for the White Star Line and scrapped 1896 in Belfast, and one built 1899 for the White Star Line, with the maiden voyage 6/9/1899 Liverpool to Queenstown (now Cobh), Ireland and Boston, continuing with this route until 1907.  The Ships List also has info on the different sales, ownerships and combination of lines in this era, and it seems that the Dominion Line name continued to be used, but their fleet list doesn't show Oceanic there.  There is a route for one of the lines Liverpool-Queenstown-Quebec though.

I also thought I'd be able to find the border crossing from the US to Canada by Janet Brown and her brother for the wedding, but not on Ancestry. There only seems to be the reverse journey for 1900. But I can't find John M Brown returning.
 


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 10:40 GMT (UK)
I still haven't found a link between Emma Brown nee Woods (1835-1881), born Liverpool - mother of Janet and grandmother of Ivy - and Ada Matilda Isabel Wayland nee Woods (1839-1916), born Liverpool.  Other than the name Isabel that keeps popping up everywhere. And perhaps Edward Woods was father of both women?  There is a GRO ref for Ada Matilda Woods 1840  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 20  Page 920 MMN Jones.  No other Ada or Matilda Woods registered. Emma was born before the GRO records so no help there.  There's an Edward Woods married Eleanor Jones in 1865 registered West Derby.

In 1878 at St George Hanover Square, Ada Matilda Woods married William Robinson Wayland (variously described as civil servant and gentleman).  They already had a number of children together including William Abraham Wayland (later Sir) who is stated as the cousin of Janet Brown/Caldwell on one of the passenger lists. His first wife was Charlotte Harriett Croft Ryland, who died 1883.  Divorce or bigamy?

I have a lot on W A Wayland but not the original info on either of his father's marriages, just transcripts, with no father listed for Ada Matilda Woods. We do have the possible Edward Woods connection that you found but differences in occupation, although his status may have been raised for the purposes of a marriage cert?

The DNA link has made me wonder if it was his wife who was actually Janet's cousin, but as in those days references were made to the man of the house. Although nothing is leaping out at me.  Or course the DNA link could be indirect so these connections, so while interesting, leading me up the garden path. The link is about 75cM for me and double that for my sister, so it's likely a few generations back.  But DNA links is a whole different thread!

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 12:49 GMT (UK)


Border Crossing USA to Canada on Ancestry mainly covers 1908 - 1935 - Not all immigrants going  into Canada were registered. Some people may have entered the country through non-port cities or when ports were close.  There were loads of crossing points, unmanned into Canada previous to 1908.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:07 GMT (UK)
Going down the Brown avenue............... :-\ :-\

Matilda Ada Woods married William Wayland.

1841 census Dale Street, Liverpool. Lancashire

Edwd Woods 30 Puiblican.
Isabella Woods 40 born Scotland.
Emma Woods 5 born Liverpool.
Isaabel Woods 8 born Liverpool.
Matilda Woods   4 born Liverpool.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ21-L8L

1861 census Bootle Lancashire

Isabella Woods   60   Head.
Emma Woods 26 Daughter.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQ21-L8L

Marriage of Emma Woods - (not everything is perfect  :-\ father Edward was a solicitor !!)

Emma Woods - 20 March 1866 Bootle St Mary Lancashire. Spinster. - Full Age
Father   Edward Woods - Spouse David Miller Brown. Widower. Father John Brown. Merchant.
Clerk in the Masonic Office. Town Hall. Liverpool.

Liverpool Mercury, etc.
Liverpool, Merseyside, England •
Thu, 21 Jun 1866
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-mercury-etc/141972424/

1871 census 195 Beacon Lane. Liverpool.

David M Brown 47 Head. Accountant.
Emma Brown   37   Wife
Henry G Brown 7 Son  (probably from first marriage of David)
Janet J Brown 3 Daughter (age slightly out  :-\)
David E Brown 2 Son
Sarah Jones 20

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6M-M5S

BROWN, JANET  ISABEL     WOODS 
GRO Reference: 1867  D Quarter in LIVERPOOL  Volume 08B  Page 195

BROWN, DAVID  EDWARD     WOODS 
GRO Reference: 1868  D Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 433

Sandra

Before I throw my notes away - a few snippets to ponder.

Refreshing my memory of what I had written on the Brown family - do recall there was a marriage in Liverpool - checking back it was 19 December 1931 -    Isabella Aris - Spouse    Edward Woods  (worth investigating)
Appeared in Lancashire, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1936 Bishops transcripts and  Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935 - Edward Woods - Bachelor - Isabella Aris - Spinster - married by license.

There was a city directory entry for Isabella Aris in 1827 31 Mount Pleasant. Liverpool.

The name Isabella so prominent - Also noted a birth for another Isabella - sister of David Miller Brown - 16 March 1816 to John Brown and Janet Skinner.

Another marriage worth investigation might have been Isabella Woods to Handel Moore 12 Feb 1857 - Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935
Father of Isabella given as Edwards Woods - looks like Attorney maybe ?  That would be another coincidence/consistency !!!! Residence was Edge Hill Liverpool.  One of the witnesses was E Woods - could that be Emma Woods her sister.  More food for thought.


Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:27 GMT (UK)
Just about to post this when your message arrived.

A David Woods married an Isabella Aris 19 Dec 1831 in Liverpool.  Isabella Woods
died 1876. Burial record shows 9 Lomond Rd - that rings a bell with Emma Woods - her census address or death address, will have to check.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:36 GMT (UK)
Just about to post this when your message arrived.

A David Woods married an Isabella Aris 19 Dec 1831 in Liverpool.  Isabella Woods
died 1876. Burial record shows 9 Lomond Rd - that rings a bell with Emma Woods - her census address or death address, will have to check.

Isabella Aris married Edward Woods.  I should put the death notice on for Isabella.


Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:37 GMT (UK)

To tie the loose ends up  and confirm this was the correctly identified  marriage

Liverpool Mercury, etc.
Liverpool, Merseyside
Sat, 13 May 1876
Page 3

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-mercury-etc/142724388/

Sandra

Added

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/233902653/isabella-woods
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:37 GMT (UK)
Just about to post this when your message arrived.

A David Woods married an Isabella Aris 19 Dec 1831 in Liverpool.  Isabella Woods
died 1876. Burial record shows 9 Lomond Rd - that rings a bell with Emma Woods - her census address or death address, will have to check.

Isabella Aris married Edward Woods.  I should put the death notice on for Isabella.


Sandra

Sorry correction - Edward Woods.  Getting them mixed up.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sandra, more excellent digging. 

Disappointingly the Scottish birth record is for June 30th 1891 5hrs 50mins (that implies a twin but the preceding birth record is on another page) to Alexander Caldwell, fireman, and Isabella Caldwell m/s (maiden surname?) Brown married April 23rd 1895 at Barrhead.

So wrong Caldwells - and wrong child - pity.

And discovered that on Scotland's People, each record seems to cost 6 credits - annoying.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:40 GMT (UK)


You've had loads for free, so that's a small price to pay   :-\ 

At least you know you are still searching.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 13:44 GMT (UK)
Oh yes, certainly loads for free with all your help.  :)  Just surprised about the credits thing.  I expected 1 credit=1 record but don't know why.  I'll be searching Scottish records in case something else looks promising.

Isabella Woods died May 1876 aged 81 and buried in Holy Trinity graveyard, Wavertree, Liverpool.

Still searching for Ivy Isabella Caldwell - she'll turn up eventually.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 14:12 GMT (UK)
UK, Articles of Clerkship, 1756-1874

Can't put the actual article/documnets on look up board


Peter Woods
Clerk's Father   Peter Woods - Attorney   Edward Woods - Indenture bearing date - 29 November 1828
Filing Date   7 Jan 1829 Liverpool    Lancashire.

Peter Woods
Clerk's Father   Thomas Woods - Attorney   Charles Clements
Filing Date   22 Feb 1788
Liverpool Lancashire.

Think this is a brother Peter Woods -
 - Peter Woods - Clerk's Father   Peter Woods - Attorney   Peter Woods
Filing Date   3 Nov 1824
Liverpool Lancashire

Edward Woods
Clerk's Father   Peter Woods - Attorney   Peter Woods
Filing Date   18 Apr 1832
Liverpool   Lancashire
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 14:19 GMT (UK)
Yet another good find, thank you Sandra.  I think another on this thread was listed as a clerk and we (or I) tend to think of that as a general office job rather than a legal position.

As for Ancestry, I use the card catalogue to find specific datasets, if the card catalogue search lets me, but then find other records by a general search, revealing datasets I hadn't discovered before.   ::)  And have learnt to download any images I find immediately as often I can't find them a second time.  Is it me or does everyone have problems?  I must be using the wrong strategy.  Certainly not improved over time....sigh.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 05 March 24 14:22 GMT (UK)
UK, Articles of Clerkship, 1756-1874

Can't put the actual article/documnets on look up board


Peter Woods
Clerk's Father   Peter Woods - Attorney   Edward Woods - Indenture bearing date - 29 November 1828
Filing Date   7 Jan 1829 Liverpool    Lancashire.

Peter Woods
Clerk's Father   Thomas Woods - Attorney   Charles Clements
Filing Date   22 Feb 1788
Liverpool Lancashire.

Think this is a brother Peter Woods -
 - Peter Woods - Clerk's Father   Peter Woods - Attorney   Peter Woods
Filing Date   3 Nov 1824
Liverpool Lancashire

I have access to those images so will check them today and piece together more of the puzzle.  My problem is finding the entries in the first place!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Tuesday 05 March 24 14:32 GMT (UK)


Reference reply 167

Quote - Another marriage worth investigation might have been Isabella Woods to Handel Moore 12 Feb 1857 - Liverpool, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1935
Father of Isabella given as Edwards Woods - looks like Attorney maybe ?  That would be another coincidence/consistency !!!! Residence was Edge Hill Liverpool.  One of the witnesses was E Woods - could that be Emma Woods her sister.  More food for thought.

Correctly identified the marriage above as a sister of Ada Matilda and Emma.

If you refer to census - Handel Moore and Isabella Woods had a daughter Isabella  - this is her marriage which mentions Isabella as the grand-daughter of Edward Woods - Solicitor.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/liverpool-daily-post/142726163/

Sandra



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 06 March 24 20:20 GMT (UK)
Just about to post this when your message arrived.

A David Woods married an Isabella Aris 19 Dec 1831 in Liverpool.  Isabella Woods
died 1876. Burial record shows 9 Lomond Rd - that rings a bell with Emma Woods - her census address or death address, will have to check.

Found 9 Lomond Rd.  It was in the probate notice for David Miller Brown - 4 Nov 1875, Liverpool Probate Registry. 'Probate to Emma Woods relict of 9 Lomond Rd.'

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 07 March 24 18:29 GMT (UK)
I've found Ivy Isabel Caldwell listed at Francis Shimer school 1908-9 school year, so that's a few months further back for her first sighting.

Looking at older calendars that the school produced, there are no pupils named Ivy.  Some Isabels. But where her full name wasn't stated in 1908-11, she was listed as Ivy Caldwell not Isabel Caldwell so perhaps the other Isabels can be discounted.  She would presumably have been a Caldwell from at least June 1900 in any case.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: Dundee on Thursday 07 March 24 22:22 GMT (UK)

Disappointingly the Scottish birth record is for June 30th 1891 5hrs 50mins (that implies a twin but the preceding birth record is on another page) to Alexander Caldwell, fireman, and Isabella Caldwell m/s (maiden surname?) Brown married April 23rd 1895 at Barrhead.


All births in Scotland have the time recorded and does not indicate a twin.  There are no other CALDWELL births indexed apart from Isabella.

Debra  :)
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 07 March 24 23:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that. Although the next entry on the page didn’t have a time which is why I thought aha twins.

When did they start putting times on do you know?

The birth cert is much more useful than the English ones as it gives the date and place of marriage although could  that be fiction if necessary to legitimise the birth?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: maddys52 on Friday 08 March 24 03:06 GMT (UK)
The hour of birth has been included on Scottish Birth Certificates since registration began in 1855.  :)
https://www.scotlandsgenealogy.com/blog/scottish-birth-certificate-information
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Friday 08 March 24 09:16 GMT (UK)
Just looked again and yes the time of birth is on the other entries on the page, just not as prominent as for Ivy's, and hard to read.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Saturday 09 March 24 23:25 GMT (UK)
Just confirmed by my DNA link, a ggrandson of Ivy, that yes, she lived well past 100 and he thought she was 104 when she died.  He will be quizzing his mother for more info.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 27 March 24 17:31 GMT (UK)
Regarding Janet/Jeanette Isabella Brown, I have now received a marriage cert that confirms that her mother, Emma Brown nee Woods, was sister to Ada Matilda Woods, who married William Robinson Wayland. Confirming that Janet and W A Wayland were cousins.  And also helping me decipher my DNA matches.

The marriage cert:
4 April 1878. William Robinson Wayland 50 widower shorthand writer, son of Abraham Wayland deceased Baptist minister; Ada Matilda Woods 38 spinster, daughter of Edward Woods deceased attorney. Both 35 Parliament St, Westminster.  By licence. At register office in the parish of St George Hanover Square, Middx.  Witnesses James A Heltham?; J Hooper Inescus?  The handwriting is a bit scratchy so I'll post this on the handwriting forum to check the witness surnames.

Thanks to all of you with your help, and perhaps Ivy Caldwell will emerge one day!



Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 27 March 24 17:52 GMT (UK)


Delighted the research checked out ok.

Something strange about Ivy Isabel, she might not have been a Caldwell at all  :-\

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 27 March 24 18:21 GMT (UK)
I think you're right. Just took the Caldwell name later?  So I need to be looking for Ivy and/or Isabel Brown I think.  Although I did look before but perhaps not thoroughly enough.  I'm going through the various family members now on censuses to see if a child pops up.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Wednesday 27 March 24 18:44 GMT (UK)

You do need to go through all the Wayland children and the married Wayland children from the sister Ada's marriage to William. To double check none may have been born illegitimately and taken to the USA to save any family embarrassment. 

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Wednesday 27 March 24 18:50 GMT (UK)
Not sure about family embarrassment as it's now looking possible that Wayland fathered a few children of a single woman (which is where my DNA match comes in) in the mid 1890s.  He visited them in the workhouse once their mother became mentally ill and was sent to an asylum. I have another thread somewhere else about that.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Tuesday 18 June 24 08:54 BST (UK)
I have just had a message from Ivy's great grandson.  To say that his mother (daughter of Ivy) said the family nickname for her grandmother (ie Ivy's mother) was Wella Wella.  Not sure how significant that is.

Sandra I need to revisit this whole family as you suggested, but have been busy with the present day for a few months.  Back to dusty documents eventually!
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 15 January 26 18:18 GMT (UK)
Going sideways again on the William Caldwell trail - someone researching their Caldwells has identified more about his parents and when adding them to the tree I'm building, Anc hinted an obit in Canada in The Gazette; Publication Date: 16 Dec 1942; Publication Place: Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

A parent William and child Stewart are mentioned. No idea which person died, and if it has any connection to 'my' William. 

Please could someone look up this obit for me as I don't have a sub to this news archive?

Thanks very much.


Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Thursday 15 January 26 18:28 GMT (UK)
15 Dec 1942
The Montreal Star(Montreal, Quebec, Canada)

with photograph

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-montreal-star/188988959/

16 Dec 1942
The Gazette(Montreal, Quebec, Canada)

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-gazette/188989332/

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Thursday 15 January 26 19:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much Sandra.

That rules him out then - emeritus professor.  So not going to go from master mariner to that sphere. Back to the drawing board.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 13:29 GMT (UK)
Post 141:
Well in the 1899 city directory (compiled 1898) we have the last listing of Brown&Connor in Chicago, then we have the March 1903 newspaper announcement of the new business Caldwell&Anderson opening at 2 Oliver Row, South Bend.

I have been in touch with a William Caldwell researcher.  He found a newspaper cutting 1909-02-26_Chicago-Tribune (can't post the image here).  It says:

STATE OF ILLINOIS, CUNTY [sic!] OF COOK - SS - PUBLIC NOTICE is hereby given that the partnership heretofore existing between the undersigned under the firm name of BROWN & CONNER, has this day been dissolved by mutual consent. The undersigned, FRANCES E. PRIEST, has sold all her right, title, and interest in said co-partnership, including the good will, trade name, etc. to JANET I. CALDWELL.  All outstanding indebtedness due said co-partnership shall be paid to the said JANET I. CALDWELL, who also assumes all outstanding liabilities.
JANET I. CALDWELL will continue the said business under the style and name of BROWN & CONNER, at the present location, 514-518 Venetian Bldg., Chicago, Ill.
JANETE I. CALDWELL
FRANCES E. PRIEST
Chicago Feb 25 1909

So was Frances Priest nee Conner, or perhaps Conner was a previous owner.

Edit: wrong about Frances, forgot about finding Helen Conner.

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 13:51 GMT (UK)
Found this transcription from newspaper.com (no sub to that)

Isabel
Gender   Female
Birth Date   1895
Birth Place   Indiana, USA
Publication Date   18 Apr 1895
Publication Place   South Bend, Indiana, USA
Newspaper Title   The South Bend Tribune

Could this be Ivy Isobel?  No surname in the transcription.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 18 January 26 14:22 GMT (UK)
Found this transcription from newspaper.com (no sub to that)

Isabel
Gender   Female
Birth Date   1895
Birth Place   Indiana, USA
Publication Date   18 Apr 1895
Publication Place   South Bend, Indiana, USA
Newspaper Title   The South Bend Tribune

Could this be Ivy Isobel?  No surname in the transcription.

No unfortunately not - previous name Daisy.

18 Apr 1895
The South Bend Tribune(South Bend, IN)

https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-south-bend-tribune/189212751/

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 14:42 GMT (UK)
Heyho - Tx for looking. Was this woman beamed down by aliens?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 18 January 26 17:38 GMT (UK)


Chances are that Ivy Isabel ? was not a Caldwell.  Born 1891 and the Caldwell marriage in Montreal 1900.  Ivy may not have been her real name. Nothing showing under Brown either.

There is nothing in the Caldwell line - father William Caldwell passed 1898 (no mentions of family in death notices) - Mother Mary Wilson Caldwell 1872.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9PZ-RWF9?lang=en

Father remarried in 1875 to Mary Mathie -  Mary passed in 1916 (no mention of William (her step-son) in that death notice - William and the second wife had 2 children James and Edith (1880)

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTBJ-JLV?lang=en

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2HR-T3D9?lang=en

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 18:18 GMT (UK)
It is looking like a needle in a haystack.  How did Janet Brown meet William Caldwell before they both travelled to Canada to marry?  Presumably she went to him as his ship had docked there.

There is some confusion with too many William Caldwells and Marys. 

William Caldwell b 1824 writer/clerk and father of WC the mariner married Mary Wilson (1837-72). They had one child, WC the mariner. On her death he married Mary Mathie (1841-1916 and a cousin of MW). They had two children, James and Edith Helen.

Mary Wilson's mother was another Mary Mathie (1811-89). And a Daniel Mathie (1818-53) married a Mary just to introduce another Mary Mathie.  So lots of family trees have got this mixed up, along with Anc hints.

Wonder if the mariner died at sea? Although still alive getting married in 1900 after his father had died.
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 18:21 GMT (UK)
Are there death notices somewhere on Family Search?
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 18 January 26 19:12 GMT (UK)

How to Find Death Notices on FamilySearch:

Search Historical Records: Use the main search page and filter by "Death" type or search specifically within newspaper and obituary collections.
Explore Specific Collections: Look for dedicated collections like "United Kingdom, Funeral Notices" or "British Newspaper Archives, Obituaries," often linked from country or state pages.
Use the FamilySearch Catalog: Search by place and subject (e.g., "Obituaries") to find digitized books or microfilms.
Check Family Tree: Search for the person in the Family Tree and look at their Sources, Memories, and Brief Life Sketch for notices.
Key Collections & Tips:
Newspaper Archives: FamilySearch partners with sites like GenealogyBank and FindMyPast for vast newspaper content.
Find a Grave/BillionGraves: These are integrated for cemetery records and often include obituaries.
Specialized Search: Use keywords like "funeral notices," "obituaries," or specific publication names in the search bar.

Sandra

Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: *Sandra* on Sunday 18 January 26 19:37 GMT (UK)
It is looking like a needle in a haystack.  How did Janet Brown meet William Caldwell before they both travelled to Canada to marry?  Presumably she went to him as his ship had docked there.

There is some confusion with too many William Caldwells and Marys. 

William Caldwell b 1824 writer/clerk and father of WC the mariner married Mary Wilson (1837-72). They had one child, WC the mariner. On her death he married Mary Mathie (1841-1916 and a cousin of MW). They had two children, James and Edith Helen.

Mary Wilson's mother was another Mary Mathie (1811-89). And a Daniel Mathie (1818-53) married a Mary just to introduce another Mary Mathie.  So lots of family trees have got this mixed up, along with Anc hints.

Wonder if the mariner died at sea? Although still alive getting married in 1900 after his father had died.

Prob a typo but William Caldwell was born 1834 not 1824.

Sandra
Title: Re: Birth of Ivy CALDWELL abt 1891
Post by: ValJJJ on Sunday 18 January 26 19:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all that Sandra - I know I don’t exploit Family Search well. I had no idea that death notices were there.

Back to Janet Caldwell - was the lack of support from Willm C (that led to her divorcing him) in fact because he’d died unbeknown to her? Bit unlikely though.

I also need to go back through this thread and notes because Janet and Ivy might have been in Canada during a census 🤞 I think Janet’s missing from some US censuses? If she can be found earlier than 1909 when Ivy first appears (in college records) then she might be with a child.

Or Ivy lived in Canada for a while and long enough to be picked up in a census there.

Need to search for age/birth year rather than name in the Indiana census to see if a potential Ivy turns up too. If it’s raining tomorrow that’ll keep me busy.

And yes typo over year - fat fingers on the mobile.