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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Ealasaid McLelland on Friday 16 February 24 12:43 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
I am trying to find a marriage certificate for a relative that married in Dublin.
James Ross married Elsie (Elspeth) Hyland on 16 Jun 1922 location Dublin.
I have checked GRONI and Irishgeneology.ie and The National Archives without any success.
My source is below - daughters birth certiificate from Scotland.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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GRONI is the General Register Office of Northern Ireland. Dublin is in the Republic of Ireland. ;)
Try here:
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth-family-relationships/getting-birth-marriage-or-death-certificate/
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Do you have the couple, either individually or together, on any other record? How did you discover the believed marriage date/location? Could either/both be known by any other names (eg middle names; if applicable, former married surname of female)? Any other info about the couple that might help?
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I see you have now added the Scottish birth certificate. Did they have any other children there and if yes, do the marriage details on those births match? Were either/both James and Elsie/Elspeth Irish? Did James and Elsie/Elspeth die in Scotland, if yes, do you have the names of their respective parents?
Do be aware that no one would have checked at the time that the marriage details provided were true and/or accurate.
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Thank you all for your reply's
scotmum - I have not found other children - while my search indicated other children with the names Ross/Hyland the birth locations were not anywhere near where the daughter was born. I am unsure if James and Elsie died in Scotland although when the daughter married in Scotland 1948 the certificate indicated James Ross is deceased. I tried two possibilities of deaths however they were not him. Common name James Ross - about 7 more deaths. I could not find a death for Elsie. I checked other names as well. I do realize the marriage information is not checked. Thank you for other options to consider - you have been most helpful.
KGarrad - thank you for your information. I knew GRONI would not have the record. I applied for a copy on the site you mentioned - thank you very helpful.
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Do you know if Elsie junior was raised by both/either of her named parents?
As the name combination Els* and Hyland is less common than James and Ross, I would have thought Elsie snr might show up on 1911 census, but no sign in Ireland or Scotland either. Some possibilities in England.
Have you checked this death at all?:
HYLAND
ELSPETH
78
F
1962
644 / 12 / 1324
CATHCART (GLASGOW)
It isn't registered under a second surname, nor does there seem to be any corresponding birth in Scotland for her age.
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scotmum - thank you for your efforts. I have checked the census for both Ireland and Scotland. I believe they were from Ireland however I do not know the location. I just checked the death record for Elspeth Hyland and you were right - it is her. Her son-in-law gave the information and it is not correct. Thank you - now to find James Ross death.
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There may not have been a 'James Ross', or rather not one that she was ever married to at least.
I noticed the birth certificate for Elsie jnr includes the middle name, Hyland and that Elsie snr was the one who registered the birth, rather than "James". Consider perhaps, could Elsie have been unmarried but wanted to look 'respectable' but also, if this was the case, wanted her daughter to grow up with her believed father's name as well as the Hyland name?
Given the death certificate for Elspeth Hyland is indeed "Elsie Ross (nee Hyland)" , and given no other surname appears on the death index, I am assuming, and perhaps you can confirm, she is only named on the certificate as Hyland and her 'husband' is not mentioned? Are either of her parents named, or were those details not provided by the son-in-law? You say "Her son-in-law gave the information and it is not correct. ". Do you say that because it doesn't refer to her as Elsie/Elspeth Ross? Have you considered that it may be that he and his wife knew there had been no marriage/husband, if that was indeed the case? How is she titled in the death certificate?
Had the birth certificate not been specific about date and place of purported marriage, I would perhaps have considered if Elsie and James had an irregular marriage. In Scotland, this was called 'marriage by cohabitation with habit and repute' which could apply to couples who had lived together and were thought to be married. This was rare, but did happen at times.
Could this have been Elsie snr in 1930/1935/1940, indexed as Mrs Elsie Hyland in the valuation rolls?:
HYLAND
ELSIE
MRS
OCCUPIER
HOUSE 44 SHAMROCK STREET
GLASGOW
1930
VR010201460-
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I have not found other children - while my search indicated other children with the names Ross/Hyland the birth locations were not anywhere near where the daughter was born
Those other births were likely from the following marriage:
ROSS
PETER
HYLAND
ROSE BARBARA
1921
168 / 2 / 240
ST MACHAR
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scotmom - someone is not telling the truth! I have attached a copy of her death certificate. New name to consider Dillon. I believe you are correct and they were not married. I tried a couple of more deaths for James Ross and had no luck.
This exercise is to determine a DNA connection that I may never find! I appreciate your help!!!
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If one of Elsie's descendants has taken a DNA test, then I would suggest you focus on attempting to figure out the likely lineage of Elsie "Dillon/Hyland/Ross/or otherwise" from that, as at the moment, there are no obvious certificate trails under the name combinations she used, other than the two you have.
Depending on the levels of cM matches and the respective shared matches, does drawing up a spreadsheet using the Dana Leeds colour clustering system throw up any likely links to any of the three surnames so far, or help guide you down another path to look?
See:
https://www.danaleeds.com/dna-color-clustering-the-leeds-method-for-easily-visualizing-matches/
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I will try this method - thank you.