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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: *sara* on Monday 12 February 24 22:32 GMT (UK)

Title: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: *sara* on Monday 12 February 24 22:32 GMT (UK)
hi

I have an ancestor called Ellen Molyneux Roberts at birth.  I have found her birth in 1875 and on her baptism record (1876) her parents are Thomas Roberts and Ann Roberts.

I have found them in the 1881 census where Ellen is 5 and with two younger siblings William and Thomas. (piece 3644, folio 88, page 44)

I can also find Ellen in the 1911 census as she marries John James Howard in 1903.

I am struggling from here.  I cannot locate her in 1891 and 1901.  There is a servant in 1891 age 15 called Ellen Roberts but I would never know if this was her.

More importantly and to get to the point...... I can't get any further with her parents Thomas and Sarah.  In the Liverpool area there are lots of Thomas Roberts marrying someone called Ann.  I suppose the way forward is to order the birth cert for Ellen?

Any help appreciated in taking this line further back than I have here

Many thanks
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 22:46 GMT (UK)
Was her father a mariner?

There is a marriage listed on Lancashire OPC
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
12 Oct 1874 Thomas Roberts, mariner to Ann Dixon

Edit to add
If you have anc*y you can view the actual marriage certificate
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01szu/
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 22:49 GMT (UK)
Her birth entry

ROBERTS, ELLEN  MOLYNEUX     mmn DIXON 
GRO Reference: 1876  M Quarter in WEST DERBY & TOXTETH PARK  Volume 08B  Page 234

You can order a digital image £2.50
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/indexes_search.asp#Results
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 22:58 GMT (UK)
From m/c Ann’s father William a butcher here they are on

1861 census
Piece   2703
Folio   66
Page number   7
William Dixon 47 Head occ butcher
Ellen Dixon 44 Wife
Sarah J Dixon 17 Daughter
John Dixon 15 Son
ANN Dixon   12   Daughter
Richard Dixon 10 Son
Mary E Dixon 7 Daughter

All born Liverpool
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 23:32 GMT (UK)
Two witnesses to his marriage were Walter Roberts & Mary J Roberts possibly Thomas’ siblings

1861 census

Piece   2677
Folio   25
Page number   7
John Poberts   44   Head Manchester
Sarah Poberts 42 Wife ditto
Thomas Poberts 13 Son ditto
Walter Poberts 10 Son ditto
Mary J Poberts 7 Daughter ditto
Surname is Roberts on original

ROBERTS, WALTER       mmn BARRETT 
GRO Reference: 1850  S Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 20  Page 193

Possible marriage - click link image on Anc*y

Marriage 16 Dec 1838 Manchester, St John, Lancashire
John Roberts father William
Spouse   Sarah Barratt father Thomas
https://www.rootschat.com/links/01szv/
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 13 February 24 00:19 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 22:46 GMT (UK)
There is a marriage listed on Lancashire OPC
https://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
12 Oct 1874 Thomas Roberts, mariner to Ann Dixon

Witnesses at the marriage were Walter Roberts, Mary Jane Roberts.


Looking for a census with Thomas born 1848 Manchester with siblings Walter and Mary Jane came up with this one (ROBERTS transcriber as POBERTS on Anc )

1861 census St Thomas Liverpool, 5 Templar Terrace
John Roberts  Head  44 born Manchester – Mechanic iron and brass bedsteads
Sarah Roberts wife 42 born Manchester
Thomas Roberts son 13 born Manchester - Errand boy grocer
Walter Roberts son 10 born Manchester
Mary J Roberts daughter 7 born Manchester
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M75H-CG6


The brother Walter (birth registered 1850)
Walter ROBERTS married 4 July 1872 Liverpool to Julia Kemp WILLIAMS
Thomas and Mary Jane Roberts were witnesses at the marriage
By 1911 census he had 11 children (3 dead)

[ADDED ; Sorry Ladyhawk, I see you posted much of that already. Don't know how I missed it - maybe got distracted when my neighbour started up his chain saw to cut down a tree!]
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 13 February 24 00:20 GMT (UK)
MARRIAGE 16 Dec 1838 Manchester
John ROBERTS to Sarah BARRATT
Grooms father – William Roberts Wharehouse man
Brides father –  Thomas Barratt Wharehouse man



Birth registration
ROBERTS, THOMAS                       mother - BARRETT 
GRO Reference: 1848  M Quarter in CHORLTON  Volume 20  Page 212
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 13 February 24 00:51 GMT (UK)


There is a burial 24 Jan 1867 St James Merseyside for a John Roberts age 49 which might be the father.
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Neale1961 on Tuesday 13 February 24 01:16 GMT (UK)

1871 census Liverpool

Sarah Roberts Head 52 Widow housekeeper born Manchester
Mary Jane Roberts daughter 17 born Manchester
Annie Smith Daughter 29 married born Manchester
Grandchildren: John Smith 6, Janet Smith 5, Thomas 7 mnths, born Liverpool

 (Annie Roberts married George Smith in 1863 Liverpool)


Mary Jane Roberts married Robert Williamson in 1876 West Derby.

Mother Sarah Roberts is with the Williamson family in 1881 census, and is with Annie Smith and family in 1891.
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: *sara* on Tuesday 13 February 24 09:25 GMT (UK)
Thankyou so much for all this info.  I am just about to work but I shall read through it all properly later 
very appreciated  ;D
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 13 February 24 13:47 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Neale1961 on Tuesday 13 February 24 00:19 GMT (UK)

[ADDED ; Sorry Ladyhawk, I see you posted much of that already. Don't know how I missed it - maybe got distracted when my neighbour started up his chain saw to cut down a tree!]

No problem Neale1961  :)
Title: Re: finding Ellen's parents
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 13 February 24 14:31 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Ladyhawk on Monday 12 February 24 22:58 GMT (UK)
From m/c Ann’s father William a butcher here they are on

1861 census
Piece   2703
Folio   66
Page number   7
William Dixon 47 Head occ butcher
Ellen Dixon 44 Wife
Sarah J Dixon 17 Daughter
John Dixon 15 Son
ANN Dixon   12   Daughter
Richard Dixon 10 Son
Mary E Dixon 7 Daughter

All born Liverpool

and the 1851 census for Ann Dixon 

Piece   2188 Folio   324 Page number   10
W Dixon 37 Head Liverpool occ butcher
Ellen Dixon36 Wife Crosbie
S Jane Dixon 6 Daughter ditto
John Dixon 4 Son.           ditto
Ann Dixon 2 Daughter ditto

Saah (Sarah) Jane Dixon
Baptism 5 Aug 1844 Liverpool, St Peter, Lancashire
Father  William Dixon  occ butcher Mother Ellen abode Wolf Street Toxteth

not found a baptism for John & Ann but I wonder if their birth entry

DIXON, JOHN       MULLYNEUX 
GRO Reference: 1846  D Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 20  Page 1015

DIXON, ANN    mmn   MOLLYNEUX
GRO Reference: 1849  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 20  Page 1086

Not found a birth entry for Sarah Jane Dixon with same mother's maiden name nor have I found a marriage for William Dixon to Ellen Mullyneux/Mollyneux/Molyneux  ???

1871 c
Piece   2703
Folio   66
Page number   7

William Dixon 47 Head occ butcher
Ellen Dixon   44   Wife
Sarah J Dixon 17 Daughter
John Dixon 15 Son
Ann Dixon 12 Daughter
Richard Dixon 10 Son
Mary E Dixon 7 Daughter

not found Richard's birth reg

DIXON, MARY  ELLEN     MOLLYNEUX 
GRO Reference: 1854  M Quarter in WEST DERBY  Volume 08B  Page 278
 
There is this baptism - Ellen Dixon born c 1815 on censuses

Ellen Molyneux
Baptism 25 May 1817 Liverpool, St Nicholas, Lancashire
Father   James Molyneux occ labourer Mother   Mary abode Plumbe Street

There is this 1840 marriage but William's occupation Weaver  ???

Ellen Booble Age 21 father's name/occupation blank
15 Feb 1840 Preston, St John, Lancashire
Spouse William Dixon age 22 father Thomas weaver

William Dixon Baptism 12 Aug 1815 Kirkham, Lancashire
Father Thomas Dixon Mother Agnes

Having a look to see if I can find a William Dixon, butcher on 1841 census

EDIT to add
William Dixon on census born Liverpool possible baptism

William Dixon
Baptism 6 Sep 1814 Toxteth, St James
Father John Dixon , ship wright Mother Jane abode Watkinson St., Liverpool

His sister Jane baptism 11 May 1817