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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Nifty1 on Sunday 04 February 24 07:39 GMT (UK)
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Is it possible to obtain any more information from them ?
I am thining of the page number given on the card.
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Is it possible to obtain any more information from them ?
I am thining of the page number given on the card.
The information on the cards came from lists showing the medal entitlements of various regiments and corps. Those lists can (infrequently) have some additional information, such as a previous or subsequent regiment. But that is about it.
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The Medal Index Cards have the page reference for the original Medal Rolls. These do sometimes contain additional information, such as date of discharge and number of battalion. The Medal Rolls are available on both Ancestry and Find My Past.If you don't have a subscription then I suggest try your local library which may well have access.
jds1949
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The Medal Index Cards have the page reference for the original Medal Rolls. These do sometimes contain additional information, such as date of discharge and number of battalion. The Medal Rolls are available on both Ancestry and Find My Past.If you don't have a subscription then I suggest try your local library which may well have access.
jds1949
I agree- looking at the medal roll itself may be the only way ( when there may be no surviving service or other record) of establishing a battalion for many soldiers and that then opens up the possibility of tracking their movements through the unit war diaries.
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This any use? - https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/
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The Medal Rolls are available on both Ancestry and Find My Past.
Are you sure about that? As far as I'm aware FindMyPast do not have images of the medal rolls from WO329 which are the critical source for additional details which others have mentioned. Only Ancestry and (I believe - I don't subscribe) Fold3, have these images.
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Thanks for the long trail link.
I think I may be able to find out more about my grandfather Leonard Kirtland b. 1885
I know that he joined the ATC as a Driver landed in France in late December 1914.
I had a picture of him that I am trying to find out more about.
His older brother who was in another unit of the RVC is also in the picture (standing)
Judging by the relaxed atmosphere of the pic I think that it was taken near the base at Le Harvre.
The original is very degraded and has been enhanced. I am sure that there must be other clues to the time location.
I will post a temp link to see what others think
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0bcnNGJoMps2n-6cbkLfa11fA
I thought that his unit entered France from Dover but Iam not absolutely certain of that.
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The Medal Rolls are available on both Ancestry and Find My Past.
Are you sure about that? As far as I'm aware FindMyPast do not have images of the medal rolls from WO329 which are the critical source for additional details which others have mentioned. Only Ancestry and (I believe - I don't subscribe) Fold3, have these images.
As you correctly say, Find My Past do not have the images of the Medal Rolls.
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Thanks for the long trail link.
I think I may be able to find out more about my grandfather Leonard Kirtland b. 1885
I know that he joined the ATC as a Driver landed in France in late December 1914.
I had a picture of him that I am trying to find out more about.
His older brother who was in another unit of the RVC is also in the picture.
Judging by the relaxed atmosphere of the pic I think that it was taken near the base at Le Harvre.
I will post a temp link to see what others think
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0bcnNGJoMps2n-6cbkLfa11fA
I thought that his unit entered France from Dover but Iam not absolutely certain of that.
If you want expert input on all of this, go to the Great War Forum. They can date photos, ID uniforms, etc. Will often lookup medal rolls (though you may not be supposed to ask - look at instructions - but many will anyway).
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The Corps he was in was the Army Service Corps (ASC). The prefix to his number
M2 indicates motor transport.
Unfortunately the ASC operated at Corps level so without a service record there's
no way of knowing exactly where he was which I assume is what you're looking for.
The Medal Roll contains nothing extra except his discharge date (Jan. 1919)
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I think I may be able to find out more about my grandfather Leonard Kirtland b. 1885
I know that he joined the ATC as a Driver landed in France in late December 1914.
I have looked for any surviving service records for ASC men that had a service number close to that of your grandfather and I found six records. From these records we know the following:
M2/019819 Arthur P Adamson -- enlisted 11/11/1914 -- embarked at Avonmouth, disembarked at Rouen
M2/019833 John Earnshaw -- enlisted 17/11/1914 -- embarked at Avonmouth
M2/019843 Thomas D Buckle -- enlisted 18/11/1914
M2/019882 Benjamin Robinson -- enlisted 17/11/1914
M2/019890 Sidney J Rosier -- enlisted 18/11/1914
M2/019895 Ellis Wood -- enlisted 18/11/1914
Your grandfather was given the number M2/019803 which, when compared to the above, would give his enlistment date of early November 1914.
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My apologies, it is only Ancestry that have the actual medal rolls. FindMyPast have the card information and the surviving service records, but not the rolls.
jds1949
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(https://i.postimg.cc/rsXCPQf7/41804-612057-10750-00314.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
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You can also buy them direct from the National Archives. They used to be £2.50 but I’m not sure how the free downloads has affected this.
I’d second the Long Long Trail and it’s associated Great War Forum as the best place for WW1 matters.
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quote author=jim1 link=topic=880058.msg7524164#msg7524164 date=1707046209]
The Corps he was in was the Army Service Corps (ASC). The prefix to his number
M2 indicates motor transport.
Unfortunately the ASC operated at Corps level so without a service record there's
no way of knowing exactly where he was which I assume is what you're looking for.
The Medal Roll contains nothing extra except his discharge date (Jan. 1919)
[/quote]
I have not actually applied for the relevant service record as yet as I believe there is only a very slim chance that one exists. I think if one examines something from a lot of angles for long enough then some sort of image emerges that represents as near to fact as is possible. It the same batch of pictures there is a picture of a man who I think is my grandfather dressed in a kilt. ( link to follow shorty) I am not aware of Grandfather ever having any links with Scotland and think that he may have borrowed a uniform of another soldier at a photographic studio on his returning to England.
In the past I found that Scottish units returned to England via Plymouth after the war and I think that where the picture was taken. Has any one another explanation ?
https://share.icloud.com/photos/05bmYiNrYO0jpkdWt9JMLy-uA
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Has any one another explanation ?
https://share.icloud.com/photos/05bmYiNrYO0jpkdWt9JMLy-uA
Certainly. By the end of the Great War Haig had had so many of his own men slaughtered that he was running out of bodies. Literally. As a consequence, any idea of local or national connections with regard to the allocation of soldiers went out the window. Instead, soldiers were transferred to front line units where needed. So a soldier previously in the ASC could well have been transferred to a nominally Scotch unit and handed a rifle....
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I Don't believe your Grandfather was Transferred to a Scottish Regt as its not on his Medal Cards
I don't believe he borrowed the Kilt And Glengarry for a Studio Portrait at Home so obviously not hi.m,
Application for What Service Record?
His appears to be amongst the WW1 Ex Soldiers that didn't survive the Blitz in the Arnside Repository in September 1940
There may however be a WW2 Service Record for him.
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He was not directly involved in ww2 other than profiting from it and
being in the Windsor Home Guard wth his second son Norman
The question on my mind is why should he have had the picture if it is not of himself?
Another question my mind is are there any lists of those in the Home Guard on record?
# I don’t think there is any way he was transferred to a Scots regiment either.
Btw Alamo Thanks for posting the record.
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A couple of observations.
This isn't a studio photo as he's standing on grass against
a plain backdrop so taken outside somewhere.
Also he's not wearing the usual Scottish style tunic, see below.
It may be he is from one of the Scottish Regt's. who didn't wear
kilts such as the KOSB. They had tartan trews but I believe they had kilts as no.1 dress.
but I'm willing to be corrected on that.
Doesn't bring anything to the party but I thought I'd add it.
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Ooops Jim1 Good Observation regarding Portait Photo
In question to Why would he have that Photo in his Possession?
I have come across many occasions where People had Photos of other Relatives and Friends
The MOD at Gloucester will have Recordsof his Home Guard Servics
They will, be able to say whether he claimed his Defence Medal for it.