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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: ramjo on Sunday 04 February 24 05:58 GMT (UK)

Title: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: ramjo on Sunday 04 February 24 05:58 GMT (UK)
Please see attached.  It is a grant of probate dated 1561 and is in latin(?).  I can work out that it relates to Roger the son of William Garrard of Cleeve pep [Clyffe Pypard] but would like to learn a little more.

Although a full translation would be great, I am not necessarily seeking one.  Rather I'm hoping someone can kindly paraphrase the document for me.

Thank you in advance.
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Watson on Sunday 04 February 24 12:38 GMT (UK)
I don't think it's actually a grant of probate, but a grant of administration of the goods, bequests and chattels of Roger Garrard, natural and lawful son of William Garrard, late of Cliffe Pypard.  I think it refers to things left in his will, and a dependency on Roger reaching the age of 21 years, so perhaps he was a minor. The date is 26 March 1561.
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: ramjo on Monday 05 February 24 00:11 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much Watson, yes my mistake - the archives described it as a grant of admin. 
What puzzles me is the will was held by the PCC but this small, single document is from probate records of the Consistory Court of Salisbury, Wilts.

Yes, according to the will Roger was a minor (in 1558).  May I ask, does this grant of admin indicate whether he was previously a minor or if he was still a minor.  Also, what does it say about 'a dependendency'?

When I looked at the PCC document I presumed probate had already been granted to Elizabeth (William's 'relict') and Roger but maybe that's not what it said - see attached.  I would be very grateful if you could give a transcription of this, if possible.  It might helpt to sort out what happened in this case and why a few years later Roger was granted administration of the will by the CC of Salisbury.

Thank you again
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Watson on Monday 05 February 24 07:33 GMT (UK)
ramjo, I will translate that piece later this morning.
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Watson on Monday 05 February 24 10:29 GMT (UK)
Rough translation:

The will written above was proved before Master Walter Haddon, doctor of law, custodian or commissary of the Prerogative Court of Canterbury, the seat of the Archbishop there being vacant, on the sixth day of February in the year of our Lord 1558, by the oath of Christopher Robynson, procurator of Elizabeth, the relict and executrix named in this will, and administration of all and singular the possessions (?) was approved and granted to the aforesaid executrix, after she had been sworn to administer correctly and to render a full and faithful inventory and also a full and true account, with power reserved to Roger Garrard, the other executor, when he shall come.
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Watson on Monday 05 February 24 10:44 GMT (UK)
Ramjo,

I used the phrase "dependency on Roger reaching the age of 21 years" because the first document contains the following words:

"... Et quandocunque (?) prefatus Rogerus vicesimum primum suae aetatis annum attingeret ... "

meaning

... And whenever the aforesaid Roger may reach the age of 21 years ...

Addendum:

In answer to your other question, the words "minor[ae] [a]etat[is]" seem to have been crossed out.
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: horselydown86 on Monday 05 February 24 11:13 GMT (UK)
"... Et quandocunque (?) ... "

My thought here was:  quousq(ue)
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Bookbox on Monday 05 February 24 11:20 GMT (UK)
"... Et quandocunque (?) ... "

My thought here was:  quousq(ue)

Yes, the phrase is donec et quousq(ue) ('until and as long as').
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate
Post by: Watson on Monday 05 February 24 11:22 GMT (UK)
I agree quousque. Thanks.  And donec.  Thanks.

... And until and as long as the aforesaid Roger may reach the age of 21 years ...
Title: Re: Latin - grant of probate COMPLETED
Post by: ramjo on Tuesday 06 February 24 03:03 GMT (UK)
Thank you Watson, Bookbox & horselydown86 - your assistance is very much apreciated

Jo