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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: Helina on Friday 02 February 24 14:27 GMT (UK)
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Before I order a marriage certificate I would like to explore all avenues, so need your advise please.
Catherine Murphy born 1845 (c) Tipperary Ireland, married Robert Coole in 1873 Cardiff, Robert was born in Bristol Gloucestershire in 1835.
Catherine had 4 children;
James born 1866
James born 1868
Louisa born 1872
Robert born 1877
The first 3 children were born before 1873 when Robert (senior) and Catherine married. The 1st James very likely died before 1868.
Was Catherine married before?
Were the children born out of wedlock?
I have search several marriages with no luck
Have looked on the Gov BD site with no luck, very difficult with no real surname to go on, the only slight possibility I have come across is on ancestry trees found a Kate Shee married to Robert Coole and did find a birth reg for a James Murphy,
Murthy James GRO ref 1868 M Quarter Cardiff vol 11A p 233 Shee
Any help would be appreciated
helina
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Robert born 1877
Is that the Robert Coole born in Bristol ? Mother's maiden name Shea ?
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James born 1866
James born 1868
Louisa born 1872
Have you got all their birth registrations with a mothers maiden name? Where were they born.
Have you got Catherine with son James in 1871 census? What surname do they have.
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1881 for info
Robt Coole 46 born Bath
Kate 36 wife born Tipperary
James 13 son born Cardiff
Louisa 9 dau born Cardiff
Robert 4 son born Bristol
So Kate was in England before 1871 census
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Thank you for your reply
I have looked and as yet cannot see her in 1871, Yes I have James born 1868 born in Cardiff. also looked for Robert Coole (father) in 1871 with no luck.
helina
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Did also wonder if Robert senior was married before as he was 38 when he married Catherine, but again unlucky.
helina
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Helina, from Freebmd:
Births Jun 1871 Qtr
SHEE Louisa. Cardiff 11a 288
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Begs the question why she is marrying as Murphy :-\
Unless there was a very brief marriage between 1871-1873.
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Thanks very helpful. But may be Catherine's maiden name was Shee and she married a Murphy?
helina
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1881 census shows Robert senior's place of birth as Bath, not Bristol
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27X-XPD7
His baptism
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6D9J-9T4H
1851 with parents
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGBC-C5R
1861 with wife Eliza & son Samuel
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7VH-RFV
possible birth reg for son
Samuel Cool march qtr 1860 Derby mmn Colman
Haven't spotted a marriage for Robert & Eliza as yet.
:-\
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Thank you Osprey, My mistake regarding Robert's birthplace knew it was Bath. So it looks like Robert was married before 1873 which does not surprise me. Living in Bristol and his wife Eliza was born in Warwickshire with son Samuel born in Derby.
The marriage very likely was outside Gloucestershire
helina
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Deleted already found.
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Can I ask why James 1866?
Edward Shea married Catherine Sutton Cardiff 1866
James Shey registered Cardiff 1866 mother's maiden name Sutton
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Interesting, so Edward Shea married Catherine Sutton in 1866, in the marriage reg for 1873 there were 4 names
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/6213304:8913?ssrc=pt&tid=195790441&pid=232553794806
So Robert was married to Catherine Sutton not Catherine Murphy,
I will start a fresh to morrow but things are looking clearer
Thank you all
helina
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After much thought I have decided to obtain an marriage certificate for Robert Coole, certainly will make clear if either couple had been married before, also will show the correct Catherine.
Thank you for your help.
helina
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Terrific let us know
At the moment it looks like 2 different families
James Shey 1866 belongs to EDWARD Shea and Catherine Sutton
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James MURPHY 1868 has mother's maiden name Shea
Louisa Shee 1871 no mother's maiden name.
Robert Coole 1877 mother's maiden name Shea.
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Have ordered the certificate, delivery 24th February, will let you know
helina
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The marriage certificate has arrived, Robert Coole married Catherine Murphy (widow) on the 4th August 1873, Catherine's father was called Michael Shee. Now it looks clearer and confirmed.
helina
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1881 for info
Robt Coole 46 born Bath
Kate 36 wife born Tipperary
James 13 son born Cardiff
Louisa 9 dau born Cardiff
Robert 4 son born Bristol
So Kate was in England before 1871 census
These data say no such thing as far as I can see. Says she was in England before the 1881 census, but not before the 1871.
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There were children born in England, sorry Wales, before 1871 that’s what I meant.
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I cannot find a birth registration for James or Louisa.
From the census, James was born before the 1871 census, but until you find the 1871 census there is no evidence they were in Cardiff as claimed.
These almost fit for Robert
Robert Coole . mmn Shea
Jan-Mar 1877 . Bristol . Volume 06a . Page 47
Walter Coole . mmn Shea
Jan-Mar 1879 . Bristol . Volume 06a . Page 39
Walter Coole . 0
Jan-Mar 1879 . Bristol . Volume 06a . Page 30
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Listed Twice
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1891 Census: 5 Great James St, Bristol
Catherine COLE . Widow . 49 . Laundress (Em'ee) . Ireland
James COLE . Son . Single . 22 . French Polisher(Em'ee) . Glamorgan . Cardiff
Robert COLE . Son . Single . 14 . Painters Labourer (Em'ee) . Gloucestershire . Bristol St James (or St James)