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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Cienna on Tuesday 30 January 24 06:36 GMT (UK)

Title: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Cienna on Tuesday 30 January 24 06:36 GMT (UK)


Looking for parents for Philip John SCOTT....also known as James BUTLER could be Qld or Forbes, N.S.W.

His mother is believed to be Laura MITCHELL....father unknown.

A death for him would also be helpful.

Thank you

Cienna.
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: awats179 on Tuesday 30 January 24 07:17 GMT (UK)
Hey, do you have anything that confirms that Laura Mitchell is his mother? And what date range would he have been born in?
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 30 January 24 08:41 GMT (UK)
Is this the Phillip John SCOTT you mean - born 14 Oct 1917, of Forbes but enlisted in Queensland according to his attestation.
https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4476995

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/SearchNRetrieve/Interface/ViewImage.aspx?B=4855782
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 30 January 24 08:45 GMT (UK)
Most likely this marriage:
Phillip John SCOTT and Louisa Florence FAULKNER 27 April 1940 in Queensland (1940/B/39119).

HIs wife's address on his attestation is c/0 Mrs FAULKNER.

This marriage certificate should contain his birthplace, parent's names, father's occupation etc.
https://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

A description of the wedding (his parents are not named unfortunately)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114526301  ("Milbong")
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Tuesday 30 January 24 11:16 GMT (UK)
Might this be him?

Births NSW
1917 # 48198 Reg Forbes
James S BUTLER
Parents: BENJAMIN ELSIE L

Judith
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Tuesday 30 January 24 11:28 GMT (UK)
Further to the birth suggestion

Children to Benjamin BUTLER and Elsie L:
1903 Annetta C  reg Balmain South
1905 Elsie L reg Balmain South
1907 Benjamin  reg Balmain South
1910 Ambrose S  reg Balmain South
1914 Harry reg Forbes
1917 James S  reg Forbes

Edit to add - an online tree suggests that the 'L' in Elsie's name is Laura so she is Elsie Laura.
Marriage:
4999/1903 Reg Sydney
Benjamin BUTLER, Elsie L MITCHELL


Judith
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 30 January 24 11:54 GMT (UK)

Marriage:
4999/1903 Reg Sydney
Benjamin BUTLER, Elsie L MITCHELL


Benjamin & Elsie Laura BUTLER
District Rozelle
State New South Wales
Occupation - Butcher
address 40 Parsons Street
Year 1913
Record set Australia Electoral Rolls

Possible death

Elsie L BUTLER
Father Ambrose
Mothe Emma
Death year 1932
Registration district Balmain South
Collections from Australasia, Australia
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Tuesday 30 January 24 12:01 GMT (UK)
Find-a-Grave has this death - the birth date doesn't fit exactly but if the man shown here is 78 in July 1996, his birthdate could be October 1917 as he would turn 78 in 1995 and still be 78 inJuly 1996 (if that makes sense!). This site has a photo of his headstone.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/192062686/phillip-john-scott
Phillip John Scott
Birth Date   31 Oct. 1918
Death Date   19 Jul. 1996
Death Place   Queensland, Australia
Cemetery   Boonah General Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place   Boonah, Scenic Rim Region, Queensland, Australia

I can see some electoral roll entries which may be him - happy to transcribe if you want them.

Judith
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 30 January 24 12:23 GMT (UK)
Most likely this marriage:

Phillip John SCOTT and Louisa Florence FAULKNER
27 April 1940 in Queensland (1940/B/39119).

HIs wife's address on his attestation is c/0 Mrs FAULKNER.

This marriage certificate should contain his birthplace, parent's names, father's occupation etc.
https://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

A description of the wedding (his parents are not named unfortunately)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/114526301  ("Milbong")

For info.

Phillip John SCOTT
District Oxley
Sub-district Harrisville
Number 875
State Queensland
Occupation Tank sinker
Address Woolooman Via Milbong
Year 1949

Louisa Florence SCOTT
District Oxley
Sub-district Harrisville
Number 874
State Queensland
Occupation Home duties
Address Woolooman Via Milbong
Year 1949
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Tuesday 30 January 24 13:45 GMT (UK)
Elsie Laura and Benjamin BUTLER were divorced in 1921:
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/permalink/f/1ebnd1l/INDEX1244812
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Tuesday 30 January 24 14:19 GMT (UK)
Funeral notice Elsie Laura BUTLER:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16848198

Burial at Field of Mars Cemetery :
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/123617178/elsie-laura-butler
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Tuesday 30 January 24 14:44 GMT (UK)
Benjamin BUTLER desertion of wife Elsie Laura BUTLER:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/251741851

Apprehension for desertion:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/251741977

Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Cienna on Tuesday 30 January 24 21:07 GMT (UK)


Thank you each and everyone for your replies, at least I had the name of Phillip's mum almost right, I had Laura (her middle name)....her name is Elsie Laura Mitchell.

According to his Army records his birth date is October 1917, I was aware he chnhged his name from James Butler to Phillip Scott....not able to find the reason.

Thank you for the names of family members, this helped me greatly along with the newspaper links, now I can get down to work.

Thank you all again

Best Regards

Cienna

Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 30 January 24 23:25 GMT (UK)
For interest, at the address given for Elsie Laura BUTLER in the 1920 desertion mentioned in the papers "87 Lamb St", there is Mrs Ambrose MITCHELL and her daughter Violet Rose MITCHELL (whose funeral was in 1916)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/15691654

An advertisement for the sale of the property in 1927 - to give you an idea what it was like:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/16406166  (5th column, near the bottom)
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Tuesday 30 January 24 23:41 GMT (UK)
As John/Phillip was not yet 3, and was, apparently, one of 6 children when his parents separated perhaps-speculation only - there was some kind of foster/adoption arrangement with the surname Scott.

According to the online tree I mentioned earlier, which appears to be well-researched, Benjamin Butler later lived with and had 4 children by Nellie Carlyle Hard.  (Unable to verify these births as birth records only allowed earlier than 100 years ago)
Seems to be supported by this:
Electoral Rolls
1931 Benjamin Butler, labourer, Nellie Carlyle Butler, home duties,  at 423 Armstrong St S, Ballarat West

Edit to add: one of the children listed to Benjamin Butler and Nellie is Jean Douglas BUTLER, later Jean Douglas Villarroya whose death shows her parents:

Death, Victoria, 1969 #28961
Jean Douglas Villarroya
Father   Benjamin Butter (sic)
Mother   Nellie Carlyle Hard


Judith
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Tuesday 30 January 24 23:54 GMT (UK)
Is this his death notice in 1937? Wife Nellie, 5 children mentioned
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/266084809

Modified to add:
A nice letter of appreciation from Nellie BUTLER
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/266087869

fundraising for her:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/page/29780632 (1st column bottom)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/266085238
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/266085497
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Cienna on Wednesday 31 January 24 00:00 GMT (UK)

Yes, it is his death notice , thank you maddys52, appreciate your help, I can now put a family tree together for the son of Phillip John SCOTT, having left the home when he was just 3 years of age, his son had no idea of what became of his father and had no contact.

Regards

Cienna
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Wednesday 31 January 24 00:08 GMT (UK)
MaddyS -  four of the names given in the on-line tree are those in the death notice with one extra, and one with a slightly different forename.

Children who have died:
Lesve (sic) Butler, b 1926 marries Lawrence Patch, (US Navy) in Qld in 1945, giving her father's name as "unknown", mother as Nellie Carlyle.  She emigrates to USA, dying in 1998.

Robert Henry Alan Butler b 1935 Ballarat, d 2008, Ballarat

Jean Douglas Villarroya, nee Butler, d 1969 (already given above)

Not sure, apart from the online trees,  that we have absolutely proved that Benjamin BUTLER with Elsie is the same Benjamin with Nellie Carlyle Hard Yes it is the same man - see MaddyS's post.

Judith



Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 31 January 24 06:01 GMT (UK)
The death registration for Benjamin BUTLER in Mildura, Victoria (14732 / 1937) in 1937 has parents' names Stephen and Sarah Ann. The same as on the NSW birth registration for Benjamin BUTLER at Ryde in 1885 (18194/1885).
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: judb on Wednesday 31 January 24 06:17 GMT (UK)
Good find MaddyS
Excellent - so it is the same man. 

Judith
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Cienna on Wednesday 31 January 24 06:24 GMT (UK)


Thank you maddys52, you have done well spot on....I am now moving forward..

All replies and help are greatly appreciated, thank you all.

Kind Regards

Cienna.
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 31 January 24 06:28 GMT (UK)
You may also be interested, another son of Benjamin and Elsie BUTLER is on the Dependent children Register (NSW) - Ben BUTLER, born 8 June 1907.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01syq/

Modified to change the link - hopefully this leads to the correct record
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: Cienna on Wednesday 31 January 24 06:31 GMT (UK)

I never had that info, thank you maddys52, something else to add.

Cienna
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 31 January 24 08:22 GMT (UK)
A few items on trove about another child of Benjamin and Elsie Laura BUTLER - Ambrose Stephen BUTLER (born 1910):
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/223456287 - struck by a motor cycle in 1923
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/168710020 - in trouble for stealing in 1924 (various articles)
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/252056588 - missing in 1926 (bottom 1st column)
Title: Re: Parents for Phillip John SCOTT
Post by: maddys52 on Wednesday 31 January 24 09:10 GMT (UK)
Not sure how much information you would like about other members of the family - I've been looking at them to see if I could find some reason for James' name change (no luck so far).

The eldest daughter Annetta Cornelia BUTLER married James (Jim) FINLAY in Lithgow in 1929 - a small description of the wedding (still says her parents are "Mr and Mrs Benjamin Butler of Rozelle".
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/220716717