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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: Otakou73 on Wednesday 17 January 24 21:03 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find if there is a record of a marriage between George Heath and Harriet Ketcher, possibly in the early 1840s?
1851 Census shows George Heath, 41. Harriet 39. John 8. Harriet, 2. James, 8 mo. Living at Mill(?) House Gate, Guildford, Surrey.
I have the digital images for the children’s births that all show mother’s maiden name as Ketcher.
I also have a printout of the death in New Zealand in 1929 of Harriet Kent, aged 81, born Guildford, Surrey. Father: George Heath, (postman), Mother: Harriet Heath, formerly Ketcher.
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There was a son George baptised in Guildford in 1838, so the marriage maybe earlier than 1840s.
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Here is a possible
Marriage
02 Oct 1836
Stoke-Next-Guildford, Surrey.
George Heath
to
Harriet Ketcherner
Witness - W Dendy, Mary Ketcherner
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1851 census shows Harriet's place of birth as Lewes? Sussex
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There was a son George baptised in Guildford in 1838, so the marriage maybe earlier than 1840s.
George is with his parents in 1841 census. In 1851 census he is with an Aunt Mary Boucher
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Thank you, Neale1961.
The 1838 baptism record you mention is most interesting as it gives George’s occupation as a tailor, which is the same as on that of the son born in 1843.
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The 1841 census doesn't show an occupation for George
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Following on from “Mary Ketchener” who was witness at the wedding in 1836
Here are some possibles to explore --
1841 census Stoke-Next-Guildford
Mary Ketcher age 87 living at Malt House Row
(There is a burial for her on 28 Jan 1842, age 89)
1841 census Stoke-Next-Guildford
Catherine Ketcher 45 Ireland charwoman
Mary Ketcher 25 Needle woman **
James Ketcher 25 labourer
George Ketcher 20 Brewer
Charlotte Ketcher 10 (I think Catherine’s child)
** I think this Mary Ketcher married in 1849 Guildford to Michael COCKLIN.
Her mother was Catherine Ketcher born Ireland and her father was John Ketcher.
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The 1838 baptism record you mention is most interesting as it gives George’s occupation as a tailor, which is the same as on that of the son born in 1843.
Is this the baptism?
John Charles Heath
Baptism 21 Apr 1843 Holy Trinity, Guildford, Surrey
Father George Heath occ Tailor Mother Harriet
Did George’s wife Harriet die in 1853 age 31 and did he remarry?
10 Jan 1858 Saint Barnabas, South Lambeth: Guildford Road, Lambeth
George Heath Widower, occ Tailor
Father Charles, Clothier
Charlotte Keene
Father George, hairdresser
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The 1838 baptism record you mention is most interesting as it gives George’s occupation as a tailor, which is the same as on that of the son born in 1843.
Is this the baptism?
John Charles Heath
Baptism 21 Apr 1843 Holy Trinity, Guildford, Surrey
Father George Heath occ Tailor Mother Harriet
Did George’s wife Harriet die in 1853 age 31 and did he remarry?
10 Jan 1858 Saint Barnabas, South Lambeth: Guildford Road, Lambeth
George Heath Widower, occ Tailor
Father Charles, Clothier
Charlotte Keene
Father George, hairdresser
Thank you. Yes. John Charles is the 1938 baptism.
When Harriet Heath died likely a little older than 31 as the 1851 census gives her age as 32.
Charlotte Keene was George Heath’s second wife.
I also have:
1868 baptism Nellie Louisa Robins Heath, mother Harriet Heath, spinster. Quarry Street. Guildford.
1871 census. Quarry Street. George Heath, Charlotte Heath, Nelly Louisa Heath, 3. G.daughter.
1871 census. High Street, Guildford. James Heath, 72. hairdresser. Harriet Heath, 22, servant.
Harriet emigrated to New Zealand in 1873.
1881 census Swan Lane. Nelly still with grandparents.
George died 1883.
1891 census Swan Lane. Charlotte Heath, widow. Abigail Keene, mother.
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1851 census shows Harriet's place of birth as Lewes? Sussex
Thanks you.. I have tried every variation of spelling and similar sounding names that I can think of without success.
Although if she was indeed the Harriet Ketcherner on the marriage record and that name morphed into Ketcher, I suppose her surname at birth could have been quite different again.
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Witness - W Dendy, Mary Ketcherner
The 2nd witness's name looks to me like Hutchins (or Hitchins), not Ketcherner
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Witness - W Dendy, Mary Ketcherner
The 2nd witness's name looks to me like Hutchins, not Ketcherner
If you compare that signature with the bride’s sig, you will see the similarities in the writing of the surname.
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There is a baptism in Lewes in July 1818 for a Harriott Kitchner, daughter of Samuel and Lucy.
Samuel Kitchener married Lucy Smart in Lewes in January of that year.
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There is a baptism in Lewes in July 1818 for a Harriott Kitchner, daughter of Samuel and Lucy.
Samuel Kitchener married Lucy Smart in Lewes in January of that year.
Bapt. occ labourer
1841c
Piece 1091
Book 9
Folio 24
Page number 12
Samuel Kitchener 45 Ag Lab
Lucy Kitchener 45
Lucy Kitchener 13
George Kitchener 7
Added
Lucy Kitchener
Baptism 15 Jul 1827 Wisborough Green, Sussex
Samuel Kitchener, labourer Mother Lucy
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Are there two Samuel & Lucy Kitchner/Kitchener/Ketcher ??? one couple baptizing children in Lewes the other in Wisborough Green
Damon Kitchener
Baptism 3 Oct 1819 Lewes All Saints, Sussex
Father Samuel Kitchener occ labourer Mother Lucy
Not found Damon on census record but surname appears to be Ketcher and he seems to have been in trouble a number of times here's one entry.....
Damon Ketcher, single age 30 Occupation Groom
Son of Sam'l Ketcher, labourer
Criminal Charge Stealing
Sentence 7 Years
Criminal Admission 2 Aug 1849 Middlesex
Jail Pentonville Prison
Damon Ketcher Criminal Age 30
Charge Steals
Sentence 7 Years
Conviction Date 8 Jan 1849
Conviction Place Guildford Boro Sesss
Admission Date 2 Aug 1849
Occupation Groom
There is a Damon Ketcher who was transported to Tasmania but I've not checked these records to see if it's same person
added looks as if it is the same Damen Ketcher
Date of Trial 8 Jan 1849, Location of Trial Surrey Sentence Transportation
Vessel Lady Kennaway Convicted Date 8 Jan 1849 Voyage Date 30 Jan 1851
Colony Tasmania (Van Diemen's Land) Place of Conviction Surrey
Here's a link to some info on DK https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/ketcher/damon/28224
Charles Kitchener Born 16 Dec
Baptism 12 Jan 1817 Wisborough Green, Sussex
Father Samuel Kitchener occ Lab. Mother Lucy
I think this is Charles on the 1851 census with his widowed father Samuel
Piece 1649 Folio 137 Page number 27
Hamlet of Loxwood
Samuel Kitchner 62 Wisboro Green, Sussex Widow, mole catcher Head
Charles Kitchener 34 Wisboro Green, Sussex Ag.Lab. Son
Mary Kitchener 42 Brenchley, Kent Daughter-in-law
Lucy Kitchner 22 Wisboro Green, Sussex Granddaughter
George Kitchner 16 Wisboro Green, Sussex Ag lab. Grandson
1861 Samuel 71 widow, Wisboro., ag lab. & Lucy 35 Wisboro
Lodgers with the Denyer's (no relationship given between Samuel & Lucy)
There's this marriage
Samuel Kitcheanar
Marriage 27 Sep 1814 Billingshurst, Sussex
Spouse Lucy Field
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There is a baptism in Lewes in July 1818 for a Harriott Kitchner, daughter of Samuel and Lucy.
Samuel Kitchener married Lucy Smart in Lewes in January of that year.
Just found this 1841 census entry
Piece 1080
Folio 31
Page number 15
Registration district Guildford
Lucy Ketcher 55 poor widow
Demon Ketcher 20 labourer
William Smart 25
William Smart 8
Mary Smart 6
Added
possible death Lucy
KETCHER, LUCY 66
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in GUILDFORD UNION Volume 04 Page 131
digital image is available from GRO cost £2.50
possible entry for Mary Smart 1851c
Mary Smart Age 15
Relation Pauper
Where born N
Civil parish Stoke next Guildford
Guildford Union Workhouse
Piece 1594 Folio 471 Page number 10
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BURIAL Samuel Ketcher Age 64
Event Date 19 Sep 1838
Event Place Stoke next Guildford, Surrey,
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BURIAL Samuel Ketcher Age 64
Event Date 19 Sep 1838
Event Place Stoke next Guildford, Surrey,
Is this the GRO entry?
KETCHER, SAMUEL 70
GRO Reference: 1838 S Quarter in GUILDFORD UNION Volume 04 Page 156
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As it says - BURIAL
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Links to Tasmanian records for convict Damon Ketcher
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON33-1-102$init=CON33-1-102P134
https://stors.tas.gov.au/CON14-1-42$init=CON14-1-42P297
He received his certificate of freedom in 1857.
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The information you have given me will keep me intrigued for the rest of the day.
Surnames and their variations do become rather confusing.
Thank you all so much.
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Post #13 by ShaunJ, I believe is the correct information.
LadyHawk includes information about 2 different families. To avoid confusion – ignore the Ketcher family from Wisborough. It is the Ketcher family from Lewes that was in Stoke-Next-Guildford, Surrey.
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I just want to thank you all for your replies to my query.
The information you found for me points to Lucy and Samuel Kitchener/Kitchner from Lewes becoming Lucy and Samuel Ketcher when they moved to Stoke/Guildford.
Everything else then falls into place well enough to satisfy me that the Harriot/Harriet Kitchner/Ketcherner/Ketcher who married George Heath was most likely their daughter. (I don’t suppose one can ever be 100% certain).
Thank you all again. I do appreciate your help.
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Has this been mentioned?
Lewes Sessions: orders relating to poor relief
14 July 1820
KITCHENER Samuel, wife Lucy; Harriet 2, Damon 8mths; JPs order removing them from All Saints, Lewes to Stoke, Surrey recorded and confirmed.
https://www.thekeep.info/collections/getrecord/GB179_Q_1_5_44_1820-07-14
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Here's the actual order book. So exciting!
All Saints, Lewes to Stoke, Surrey (top left)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D4S3-J7G
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Here's the actual order book. So exciting!
All Saints, Lewes to Stoke, Surrey (top left)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-D4S3-J7G
It was indeed exciting to switch on my ipad this morning and find your posts.
Thank you so much.
Information like this gives some idea into how people lived.
When Lucy died, she was an inmate of the Guildford Union workhouse, so it seems their fortunes did not improve after expulsion from Lewes.