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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: verdia on Monday 15 January 24 22:24 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have information on this person
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We'll need a bit more info to help you - what time period was she around, where, was this her maiden or married name, what do you already know (to save us covering old ground), what gaps do yuo need filling etc.
I can see one person of this name end 19th/start 20th century, but this might not be the person you want
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Just posting a name & no other info causes problems in determining the right person.
Did she die 1949 Lewisham? If so -she was 74 so born approx 1875
As there is no birth under that name she presumably married so what was her maiden name & who did she marry
Is she Nester Sumner on the 1939 register?
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lewisham Hester & husband in 1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWRX-L43
They married in 1909 - her maiden name was Marsh
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www.freebmd.org.uk has a 1909 marriage in Lewisham
Hester Elizabeth Marsh/James Tucker Sumner
Have you looked for them on the 1911 & 1921 censuses?
I see you have some 2020 posts which you don't appear to have responded to - one mentions James Tucker Sumner
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Hester Elizabeth Sumner nee Marsh. Yes she was married to James Tucker Sumner. She seems to have vanished in 1925. There is a rumour she may have been in a mental institution. When James died Four children were put in an orphanage.
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You can download a pdf copy of her death cert for £2.50 which will tell you where she died & who reported her death
Her birth was registered in the December qtr of 1874 so I think you need to look at the 1939 register entry I mentioned above
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At the marriage of daughter Dora Charlotte Sumner in 1937
There is a witness, H. E. Sumner
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Thank you very much.
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Hester Elizabeth Sumner nee Marsh. Yes she was married to James Tucker Sumner. She seems to have vanished in 1925. There is a rumour she may have been in a mental institution. When James died Four children were put in an orphanage.
I am not seeing why 4 children would have gone to an orphanage, 2 perhaps, but the others would have been a bit too old (I would have thought)
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You are probably right but that is what I was told.
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Hester Elizabeth Sumner nee Marsh. Yes she was married to James Tucker Sumner. She seems to have vanished in 1925. There is a rumour she may have been in a mental institution. When James died Four children were put in an orphanage.
I am not seeing why 4 children would have gone to an orphanage, 2 perhaps, but the others would have been a bit too old (I would have thought)
Did they have other children though after 1911?
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At the marriage of daughter Dora Charlotte Sumner in 1937
There is a witness, H. E. Sumner
See again 1939 register.
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Hester Elizabeth Sumner nee Marsh. Yes she was married to James Tucker Sumner. She seems to have vanished in 1925. There is a rumour she may have been in a mental institution. When James died Four children were put in an orphanage.
Is this James death?
James T Sumner, 1928, Brentford.
I can see 2 children born in Brentford - 1914 and 1916 - Sumner/Marsh.
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Daughter Dora born 1916 married Jonas F D VIRTUE 1937.
Hester is with her 1939.
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Hester looks to have been a witness to that marriage.
Sorry - already posted.
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Not sure if this has been posted.
The family - James and ‘Stester Elizabeth’ Summer can be found in 1921. There are four children born 1909 - 1916 at home.
If the family were together in 1928 when James died, Dora Charlotte would be 12 yrs.
Do you have James’ death certificate?
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1911 census has daughter Hilda Sumner aged 1.
Hilda Joan Sumner birth registered Lewisham Q4 1909
A Hilda Joan Sumner married Albert Ernest Horridge in 1934, in Victoria, Australia.
Hilda Joan Horridge death registered 1964, Bright, Victoria, Australia.
birth date about 1910
Father: James Sumner
Mother: Hetty Marsh
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Hester and James can be found together in Electoral Registers in 1920s, then she looks to be in Lewisham in 1930s.
We have her in Suffolk in 1939.
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Raymond Harry Sumner birth Q1 1914 mmn Marsh
He is with the family on the 1921 census.
There is a tree on Ancestry: “Zan's Family Tree” with details about him (also photos) including this note:
age 16 orphanage sent him to Canada as part of assisted juvenile emigration, to work with families in rural Canada
He seems to have returned to UK and then emigrated to Australia.
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Raymond Sumner
Return to UK, 3 May 1937
Port of Departure: Montreal, Canada
Ship Alaunia, Cunard White Star
Raymond Sumner age 23, farmer,
intended address: 32, Park Place, S. Ealing, London SW
last permanent residence: Canada
intended residence: Other Parts of The British Empire (this could mean Canada)
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The two older children on the 1911 census – Julia and Queenie – were children from a previous marriage of James Sumner to Sarah Caroline Cuthbert who died Q2 1906.
The 1901 census entry for James Sumner and his wife Carrie with five children, including Queenie 2 and Bibby 7 who matches Julia in age.
Oddly, when James Tucker Sumner married Sarah Caroline Cuthbert, the marriage certificate shows her name as Sarah Caroline Tucker, corrected to Cuthbert, and she also seems to have signed as Sarah Caroline Tucker, which has again been corrected to Cuthbert. In the case of the signature the C of the correction to Cuthbert is a good match to the C of Caroline suggesting that it was she who corrected the signature. All corrections are initialled by the minister.
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Thank you everyone, brilliant work. Yes there were two children born in Brentford. Raymond in 1914, Dora in 1916.
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Find my Past has a record for Raymond Sumner birth year 1915 to Canada 1931 on the Duchess of Richmond.
That record might have more information if it is your Raymond.
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It’s a list of about 40 boys between 14 & 17 under the auspices of the Salvation Army, Hadleigh, Essex
Cannot see him on the British Home Children site.
Edited to correct spelling of Hadleigh.
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Thanks. I saw the list elsewhere but not the reference to the Salvation Army.
I found another of the boys returning to UK to the same address, 32 Park Place, Ealing.
Perhaps that was linked to the S A.
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rlotte who was born in 1916. Thank you so much for all this hard work.
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Does the Salvation Army have any information on John George Cuthbert Sumner born 1911 and Dora Charlotte Sumner born 1916. Many, Many thanks.
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That record might show an age rather than year of birth but has been rounded perhaps.
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This question is to AlanBoyd What do I need to join on Ancestry to find a tree under Zans Family Tree?
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Does the Salvation Army have any information on John George Cuthbert Sumner born 1911 and Dora Charlotte Sumner born 1916. Many, Many thanks.
John would likely be too old.
Electoral Registers - Islington
John George Cuthbert Sumner 1935 - 1937
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It looks as though The Salvation Army advertised the scheme so perhaps the children were with their mother and it was seen as an opportunity for Raymond.
I know the family tree mentions an orphanage but that could be a presumption.
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I have discovered that Hilda was sent to Australia at age 16, in 1926. So her Father was still alive then. He died in 1928. And yes I have recently got his death Cert and he had Bronchitis and cancer. In the last two yeas of his life he lived with his son, in Brentford. So Raymond went to Canada, Hilda to Australia, John I think stayed in London, Dora Charlotte was married in 1937 and Hester was living with her in 1939. But Hester still remains a mystery to me as she seems to have disappeared in 1925. Untraceable until 1937.
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The ticket number of H. J. sumner age 16 October 1926 is 874. No one else has that ticket number that I can see. So it was a single ticket sale.
Does her last address …106 second Ave, Manor Park, E12. Tie up with the family?
In any case, she doesn’t look to be in a group. I doubt she was “sent to Australia”. I would think she would be equally likely to have gone voluntarily .
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Yes that address does ring a bell. That is where my Aunty, Ada Sumner (from James first marriage) was boarding in the Census of 1911. It is the address of her cousin. What great detective work. Thank you.
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Hester and James can be found together in Electoral Registers in 1920s, then she looks to be in Lewisham in 1930s.
We have her in Suffolk in 1939.
Could this be James and Hester?
1919- 1924
James and Hester Sumner Shakespeare Road Acton
1930 - 1933
Hester Elizabeth Sumner - Stanstead Road Lewisham
1934 - 1936
Hester Elizabeth Sumner - Ashgrove Road, Lewisham
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This question is to AlanBoyd What do I need to join on Ancestry to find a tree under Zans Family Tree?
According to something I just read online, a free account lets you access public trees.
I’ll DM a direct link to his profile page on that tree. From there you can choose to view the whole tree.
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James Tucker Sumner was at the same address as James Cuthbert Sumner, his son 1926-1928, in Harrow district.
I can’t see Hester between 1924 (with James) until 1930.
If she did have health issues maybe that was when she is not in the registers.