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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: kob3203 on Friday 12 January 24 16:08 GMT (UK)
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This is apparently the baptism record for Marie Délia Lucienne Saumur, daughter of Augustin Saumur and Delia Gascon.
The indexed information for this record includes birth date 13 Jul 1914 and baptism date 19 Jul 1907 which obviously can't be correct, and even my decades old schoolboy French tells me that it starts "Le dix-neuf juillet mil neuf cent quatorze" i.e. 19 Jul 1914 - I don't see a 13 Jul or a 1907 anywhere.
Can anybody enlighten me as to what it says?
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You're right about the date of baptism, and the date of birth is given immediately after the girl's name ('née le treize courant'), so 13 July 1914.
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Thanks, I hadn't spotted that - obviously. :-[
Looking through it again a few times with frequent reference to Google translate I realized that one of the words is likely 'soussigné', undersigned, and on each subsequent reading another word or so seemed to pop out. So this is what I now read:
"Le dix-neuf juillet mil neuf cent quatorze, nous soussigne, ??? de cette paroisse, assier baptisis, Marie Delia Lucienne, nee le treize courant, fille legitimee d'Augustin Samur et de Delia Gascon, de cette paroisse, Parraine George Nestonne, soussigne, marraine, Delia Gascon, soussignee, epouse du parraine, de cette paroisse. Le pere a declare ne savoie???, Lietc???.
Delia Gascon George Nesline
F. Ph. Beauchamp Chan C???"
My best guess at a translation now:
"19 July 1914, we the undersigned, ??? of this parish, (something about baptism), Marie Delia Lucienne, born on the thirteenth of the current (i.e. this month, July), legitimate daughter of Augustin Saumur and Delia Gascon of this parish. Sponsor/godfather George Neston, undersigned, godmother, Delia Gascon, undersigned, spouse of the sponsor/godfather, of this parish. The father has declared no known (something I can't even guess at).
Delia Gascon George Nesline
F. Ph. Beauchamp (no idea)"
So I think we have two Delia Gascons, Marie's mother (wife of Augustin Saumur) and Marie's godmother (wife of George Something-beginning-with-N). And I assume that Ph(ilippe?) Beauchamp is the parish priest who baptized Marie.
Once again, I'd be delighted if somebody can clear up the bits I haven't yet got.
(Needless to say 'treize' at the start of the third line stands out like a sore thumb now that arthurk has pointed it out ! I can't see how I missed that :) )
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End of first line ‘Curé
de cette paroisse………’
ie, curate or priest
'ne savoir signee' - could not write/sign
The names at the bottom and are not visible on the clip you posted - you have chopped them off.
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Here's what I can read :
nous soussigné curé de cette paroisse ( some curate , priest or vicar would say "moy soussigné", this one uses the 'nous de majesté") (" We are not amused " said Queen Victoria) avons baptisé...parrain ( not parraine)... le père a déclaré ne savoir signer , lecture faite ...
I understand that there were 2 Delia Gascon , as you said.
I can't see the signatures , but you can be sure there are at least 2 ( the godmother's and the priest's)
ADDED: 3 signatures ( George the godfather , Delia nb 2 and the priest)
Goldie : you beat me
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You'll have seen the signatures (we haven't), but in this extract the godfather looks like George Norbonne.
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Thanks everybody - I've attached a version with the signatures. Not sure about George Norbonne - the main text does look like Norbonne, but not sure if I can see that in his signature.
So now I think we have the full text (missing accents are my fault) "Le dix-neuf juillet mil neuf cent quatorze, nous soussigne, curé de cette paroisse, avons baptisé, Marie Delia Lucienne, nee le treize courant, fille legitimee d'Augustin Samur et de Delia Gascon, de cette paroisse, Parraine George Norbonne(?), soussigne, marraine, Delia Gascon, soussignee, epouse du parraine, de cette paroisse. le père a déclaré ne savoir signer, lecture faite."
And Google Translate seems quite good with this - "On July nineteen, nineteen hundred and fourteen, we, the undersigned, priest of this parish, baptized, Marie Delia Lucienne, born on the thirteenth inst., legitimate daughter of Augustin Samur and Delia Gascon, of this parish, Sponsor George Norbonne(?), undersigned , godmother, Delia Gascon, undersigned, wife of the godfather, of this parish. the father declared that he did not know how to sign, having read it."
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Thanks everybody - I've attached a version with the signatures. Not sure about George Norbonne - the main text does look like Norbonne, but not sure if I can see that in his signature.
So now I think we have the full text (missing accents are my fault) "Le dix-neuf juillet mil neuf cent quatorze, nous soussigne, curé de cette paroisse, avons baptisé, Marie Delia Lucienne, nee le treize courant, fille legitimee
And Google Translate seems quite good with this - "On July nineteen, nineteen hundred and fourteen, we, the undersigned, priest of this parish, baptized, Marie Delia Lucienne, born on the thirteenth inst., legitimate daughter of Augustin Samur and Delia Gascon, of this parish, Sponsor George Norbonne(?), undersigned , godmother, Delia Gascon, undersigned, wife of the godfather, of this parish. the father declared that he did not know how to sign, having read it."
Je vais ajouter mon grain de sel :
Fille légitime , not legitimee, parrain ( godfather) not parraine.
I think Augustin was in fact called Saumur.
The priest is Beauchamp .
The godfather's name is really a challenge !
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Hi,
The name I believe is Georges Nerbonne. He marries Delia Gascon July 1, 1911 (**transcribed as July 1, 1907) in the same church as the baptism of Lucienne Saumar, same priest as well. Delia's parents were Isaie Gascon and Albina Lachapelle, Georges' parents were Edouard Nerbonne and Ezima Hotte
DB
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Definitely Norbonne/Nerbonne - it appears frequently in the register, but I still can't tell whether it's an o or an e.
The 1921 Canada census indicated that Augustin and Delia had at least 5 children - Irene 17, Blanche 15, Ivone 13, Joseph 8 and Lucienne 7. I found Ivone and an additional daughter quite easily with Ancestry's index search, Blanche and Irene with a bit more difficulty, and for Joseph I ended up searching the images page by page.
Irene (Marie Delia Irene b30 May 1904)
Blanche (Marie Blanche b2 May 1906),
Ivone (Marie Yvonne Mathilde b28 Mar 1908)
(Marie Lucienne Desneiges Saumur b9 jun 1910)
Joseph (Joseph Stanislas Lucien b10 Sep 1912)
Lucienne (Marie Delia Lucienne b13 Jul 1914)
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Hi,
The Nerbonne's appear on numerous Canada Voters Lists, this one from 1957.
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Thank you. So it's definitely an e - Nerbonne.
The one remaining mystery word is on the very last line, the priest's signature
F. Ph. Beauchamp C??? Curé
It looks like 'chan', or possibly 'char' to me...
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chan. = chanoine = canon in English
F. Ph. Beauchamp = Félix-Philibert-Bernard Beauchamp
https://genealogie.quebec/stemma4web/info/324721 (https://genealogie.quebec/stemma4web/info/324721)
If you read through the info in the link above, you'll see a few Nerbonnes mentioned.
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kob3203 I was beginning to wonder if you were off on holiday or having internet problems… but can see you’ve been online. Is your post now resolved? Do you agree that chan = chanoine = canon?
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Sorry for not replying - I haven't been on RootsChat for several days (I have the "keep me logged in" option set which is why it appears that I'm online).
Yes, chanoine curé would make sense. And Nerbonne's the surname. Thanks, everything's been answered.