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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: 2ndEarl on Sunday 07 January 24 07:45 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to confirm if he had a son James North with his spouse Anne Speke
Thank you
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Cant see that they had a Son James.
Looked everywhere but the Peerage has a list of children you may have already found;
Lady Charlotte North3 d. 25 Oct 1849
Lady Anne North+4 d. 18 Jan 1832
George Augustus North, 3rd Earl of Guilford+1 b. 11 Sep 1757, d. 20 Apr 1802
Lady Catherine Anne North3 b. 16 Feb 1760, d. 6 Feb 1817
Lt.-Col. Francis North, 4th Earl of Guilford3 b. 25 Dec 1761, d. 11 Jan 1817
Frederick North, 5th Earl of Guilford3 b. 7 Feb 1766, d. 14 Oct 1827
What dates do you have for James and when/where did he Marry?
Trish :)
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Wikipedia says there were 7 children, but only names the 6 already mentioned?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_North,_Lord_North
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Only six children are named in his will.
Modified:
Welcome to RootsChat 2ndEarl. You've posted in the "how to use RootsChat" board. I've asked a moderator to move your thread to a more suitable location. :)
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Cant see that they had a Son James.
Looked everywhere but the Peerage has a list of children you may have already found;
Lady Charlotte North3 d. 25 Oct 1849
Lady Anne North+4 d. 18 Jan 1832
George Augustus North, 3rd Earl of Guilford+1 b. 11 Sep 1757, d. 20 Apr 1802
Lady Catherine Anne North3 b. 16 Feb 1760, d. 6 Feb 1817
Lt.-Col. Francis North, 4th Earl of Guilford3 b. 25 Dec 1761, d. 11 Jan 1817
Frederick North, 5th Earl of Guilford3 b. 7 Feb 1766, d. 14 Oct 1827
What dates do you have for James and when/where did he Marry?
Trish :)
Hi Trish
Thank you for your response and apologies for not replying earlier but I couldn't work out how to to it !! So hope this is the right way :) ::)
I have James North as born 1760 (1766 on one site ? mistype) and died or buried 2/6/1812
Adrienne :)
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I see a tree on Ancestry that has James NORTH (1760-1812) as son of Lord Frederick NORTH, however ...
In the marriage they have for James in 1788 to Martha LEE, James is a clothier of Calverley. He does not sign (signs with an "x") and one of the witnesses is a William NORTH. Of course this doesn't rule out his parentage, but I find it highly unlikely the son of Lord NORTH would not be able to sign his name. I think I would be looking for a family with a brother or other close relative William NORTH.
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Not sure - is this the death of James NORTH in 1812:
"On Monday, aged 69, Mr James North, Schoolmaster, and Secretary to the Lying-in Charity ... of Hull"
Friday, June 12, 1812
Publication: Stamford Mercury
So this one was born c1743.
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This tree has Katherine Anne North b 1760 as Frederick and Ann Speke first born - same year as the other tree has James b 1760- they married 20th May 1756 - so 4 years before a first born ??...seems a long time ??
https://gw.geneanet.org/pierrejean75?n=north&oc=&p=frederick
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Welcome to Rootschat.
Cant see that they had a Son James.
Looked everywhere but the Peerage has a list of children you may have already found;
Lady Charlotte North3 d. 25 Oct 1849
Lady Anne North+4 d. 18 Jan 1832
George Augustus North, 3rd Earl of Guilford+1 b. 11 Sep 1757, d. 20 Apr 1802
Apologies Trish I forgot to tell you the marriage date which was 17/11/1788
Thank you Adrienne
Lady Catherine Anne North3 b. 16 Feb 1760, d. 6 Feb 1817
Lt.-Col. Francis North, 4th Earl of Guilford3 b. 25 Dec 1761, d. 11 Jan 1817
Frederick North, 5th Earl of Guilford3 b. 7 Feb 1766, d. 14 Oct 1827
What dates do you have for James and when/where did he Marry?
Trish :)
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Not sure - is this the death of James NORTH in 1812:
"On Monday, aged 69, Mr James North, Schoolmaster, and Secretary to the Lying-in Charity ... of Hull"
Friday, June 12, 1812
Publication: Stamford Mercury
So this one was born c1743.
Thank you for your reply but I don't think it is.The James North I have was born in 1760
Kind regards
Adrienne
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I see a tree on Ancestry that has James NORTH (1760-1812) as son of Lord Frederick NORTH, however ...
In the marriage they have for James in 1788 to Martha LEE, James is a clothier of Cleverly. He does not sign (signs with an "x") and one of the witnesses is a William NORTH. Of course this doesn't rule out his parentage, but I find it highly unlikely the son of Lord NORTH would not be able to sign his name. I think I would be looking for a family with a brother or other close relative William NORTH.
Thank you for your reply.
I do agree that it seems strange if a man on that position could not sign his name.
I have attached a copy of the marriage entry but there is no reference to his profession.
Is it possible you could send me a copy of the certificate.
Thank you again
Adrienne
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Hi Adrienne,
Is the info you have for James 1760-1812 from a Tree of someone else?
Did your James marry Martha Lee?
A Tree has only 1 child to them Harriot bapt 30 Oct 1788 • Sutton, Father JAMES
On FreeREG;
Baptisms;
St James, Sutton-on-Hull, East Riding of Yorkshire
North, Father JAMES, no Mother named
HARRIOT 30 Oct 1788
JOHN 26 Apr 1791
ANN 16 Nov 1792
GEORGE 30 Apr 1796
JAMES 02 Jan 1799
THOMAS 27 Jan 1802
JOSEPH 20 Jan 1804
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Occp is in top right hand corner
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If you look at the other Marriages on page a few Clothiers, Shoemaker/Mason etc for males.
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This tree has Katherine Anne North b 1760 as Frederick and Ann Speke first born - same year as the other tree has James b 1760- they married 20th May 1756 - so 4 years before a first born ??...seems a long time ??
https://gw.geneanet.org/pierrejean75?n=north&oc=&p=frederick
Yes I see what you mean about 4 years being quite a long time.
Out of interest I have seen other information sayiying there wa also a Catherine born in 1760 but who sadly drowned in an estate poll at the age of 6 but I have never found any records to substansiate this. You mentioned that there was another tree whish says James North was born in 1760 (I did see somewhere his D.O.B was 1766 so could be a mistype?) Can you give me a link to this tree.
Thank you for your input
Adrienne
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This has 7 children under "Family and Education"
https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1790-1820/member/north-frederick-1732-92
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Some newspaper announcements that I can find:
"Tuesday the Lady of Lord North was safely delivered of a Son and Heir."
September 13, 1757 - September 15, 1757
Publication: London Evening Post
"Saturday the Lady of the Right Hon. Lord North, one of the Lords of the Treasury, was safely delivered of a Daughter at his House in Grosvenor-street."
February 16, 1760 - February 19, 1760
Publication: Whitehall Evening Post
"Saturday the Lady of Lord North was safely delivered of a Son, at his House in Grosvenor-street."
December 26, 1761 - December 29, 1761
Publication: Whitehall Evening Post
There is also this one:
"May 31. At London, the Lady of Lord North, of a son."
Thursday, May 1, 1777
Publication: The Scots Magazine
Will keep looking for other birth announcements, however, note the one in 1757.
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"Last week the newborn son of Lord North was baptised at his Lordship's House in Grosvenor Street, by the name of George Augustus. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Princess Dowager and the Earl and Countess of Guildford, were Sponsors."
October 15, 1757 - October 18, 1757
Publication: London Chronicle
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3 Feb 1764 - Ann, daughter of Frederick and Ann NORTH, Lord and Lady NORTH, was baptised at St George Hanover Square, (born 8 Dec 1763).
5 Mar 1766 - Frederick, son of Frederick and Ann NORTH, Lord and Lady NORTH, was baptised at St James, Westminster, (born 7 Feb 1766).
10 Jan 1771 - Charlotte NORTH, dau of Frederick Lord NORTH by Anne his wife, was baptised at St Margaret's Westminster, (born 13 Dec )
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Another baptism (which fits with the 1777 birth announcement):
21 June 1777 Dudley NORTH son of the Right Honourable Frederick Lord NORTH by Ann his wife at St Margaret's Westminster. (born 31 May)
So, these are the records of children to Frederick Lord NORTH and Ann that I can see:
13 Sept 1757 George Augustus
16 Feb 1760 daughter (probably Catherine)
26 Dec 1761 son (probably Francis)
8 Dec 1763 Ann
7 Feb 1766 Frederick
13 Dec 1770 Charlotte
31 May 1777 Dudley
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It seems Dudley died in June 1779. There is a burial at St Mary, Hampton for Dudley NORTH, infant on 24 June 1779. (There are some letters after the name but I can't read them on the register.) There is this item in newspapers, though perhaps they have the number of sons incorrect:
"... The reason the sense of the House appeared against having the Honourable member's motion put, was not from any dislike to it, or that it was not thought a matter truly deserving of their most serious consideration, but merely from the absense of Lord North (occasioned by the death of his third son) ..."
June 18, 1779 - June 21, 1779
Publication: Lloyd's Evening Post
Modified to add: a couple of death notices for Dudley -
"Yesterday morning early died the youngest son of Lord North, a child a little above the age of two years."
Saturday, June 19, 1779
Publication: Morning Chronicle
"Friday died, the youngest son of Lord North, at his Lordship's House in Downing -street."
Monday, June 21, 1779
Publication: Morning Post
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Another baptism (which fits with the 1777 birth announcement):
21 June 1777 Dudley NORTH son of the Right Honourable Frederick Lord NORTH by Ann his wife at St Margaret's Westminster. (born 31 May)
So, these are the records of children to Frederick Lord NORTH and Ann that I can see:
13 Sept 1757 George Augustus
16 Feb 1760 daughter (probably Catherine)
26 Dec 1761 son (probably Francis)
8 Dec 1763 Ann
7 Feb 1766 Frederick
13 Dec 1770 Charlotte
31 May 1777 Dudley
Thank you again for your help. I hadn't seen Dudley North listed anywhere as his son but have now found Dudley's Birth / Baptism entry with Lord North and Anne Speke as his parents so have added him to my tree
Thanks again
Adrienne
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Happy to help. It's think it's correct to say that James NORTH was not one of Lord Frederick NORTH's children.